using omni purpose ammo vs specialised ammo how fair and equal and totally not poor show from you at all for this comparison plus you should know by now that protection analysis is always squiffy.
you’re mad you got outplayed and are blaming the ammo.
must not have hit anything to catch fire. we all are taking minimum fuel 95% of the time its not surprising
third weakest. the Japanese .50cal is worse. and who would guess the 12mm is worse than a 20 or 30mm.
nose mounted, much easier to smack your pilot or fuselage fuel tank.
russian 12.7 is also a smidge better than .50 browning
His entire fuel tank. I literally peppered the entire wing.
didn’t argue that .50 is stronger than 20mm. You put those words in my mouth. Not me. My issue is that there are nations that have the exact same caliber as U.S. .50s but they are MASSIVELY stronger than the U.S. .50s. In fact you should scroll up and actually read a little bit what I said before.
Not cope. I showed how much stronger their 12.7mm is. It can blacken a wing in one shot.
U.S. .50s can’t copy that damage.
It’s because gaijin considers anything with ‘explosive filler’ as insanely strong for no reason. Mixed with wet paper DMs you end up with aircraft that just break apart with ease.
Thing is is that most of U.S. has AP so it does very little damage to wing structure and because gaijin doesn’t even consider regular incendiary filler to actually have any kind of detonation effect. It just smacks the skin doing no damage. You in essence have a completely useless piece of ammunition. Compound this that the fixed ‘real shatter’ has made explosive weapons more powerful, far too powerful even. You wind up with MGs with barely enough explosive filler to rub between your fingers capable of ripping wings off in 2 shots. while the U.S. you have to grind them down or strike the fuselage.
Problem is there’s people who think this is realistic. But if that was the case, the U.S. would do everything possible to swap to 20mm during the war, logistics be damned, their opponents weapons are way better. or would’ve slipped HE filler in their bullets.
But gaijin admits this is due to gameplay purposes, but you now have insanely strong damaging machine guns while U.S. machine guns are missing any kind of damage.
My point is that everyone can kill eachother with ease. Everyone has super strong guns that can rip someone apart or generally severely cripple with one hit.
The U.S. on the other hand has to fire at a specific convergence and at a specific target to cause any damage while fires are entirely based on RNG.
My point is. If everyone’s guns are broken. Why aren’t mine?
I guarantee that a B-17 wing is getting hit by more than two 20mms before coming off. Might be two visible, but that means probably at least 6-8 actually hit, and that’s on the low end.
blatantly wrong
the russian 12.7mm is better because they actually are
Japanese 12,7 is objectively worse
situation, point of hit, which shell and which airframe.
I’ve been shot down by a single American .50 to a wing a lot. i know that it can as I’m a player that’s actually been on the receiving end of all of the relevant cartridges and taken note
so you know how the game works. use a belt with HE if you want a HE shell. the little burning boi isn’t the explody boi.
You’re right it’s not realistic. But the question is. How are you going to change it? Aircraft airframes during the war were insanely lopsided. A single Bf-109 going to engage a B-17 would be suicidal, and currently, bombers have no place in the game so you’ll find issues with them just gun shipping.
If you went with realistic damage, you’ll find people dreading trying to fight different aircraft because they’re just plain hard to shoot down mixed with their performance and so on.
Then with the current game structure you’ll run into issues at which point you’re asking gaijin to overhaul the game, which they won’t do. Because it’s been the same since 2013.
So the way they’re doing it is best in their eyes with the current per view that they don’t have to shake things up too much. Bro. They’re grinding their teeth when it comes to people’s demands of 8v8 matches for top-tier.
I don’t see how giving incendiary a slight high explosive effect would honestly change much to the game besides actually make it easier to use U.S. aircraft, most of which don’t even fit how gaijin designed the game.
must confess i do go into gound battles with the direct intention of just bullying CAS bombers by literally firing a single hispano shot and deleting a wing. Gotten better at it than I often like to admit.
Ive even one tapped nuke bombers on many occasions by laying in wait above the path to the battlefield in a mk24 spit as soon as I heard sirens. Scummy I know but its very effective
If you went with realistic damage, you’ll find people dreading trying to fight different aircraft because they’re just plain hard to shoot down mixed with their performance and so on.
Not really. This has been discussed a lot in the past, but the primary thing causing planes to die faster in-game is mouse aiming, not the durability of damage models. Bombers really weren’t that survivable in real life, they took massive casualties when they sortied, and it was lucky when a solid strafe didn’t destroy one. That’s without the extra time on target and accuracy you get in-game.
Apply that to fighters, and you’re going to end up with things dying about as quickly as they do now. Storied of P-47s surviving 20 minutes of being shot stop applying when you have that same P-47 taking actual HE cannon fire in the middle of a high-G turn.
As I said earlier in the discussion, if you actually want .50 cals to do better, then making the maps larger and the matches longer is the way to do it. As well as probably making radiator damage kill an engine faster on most planes (because a lot of air cooled planes are genuinely resistant to cooling damage).
If you want to add an explosive effect to API rounds, then you should be ready for a buffed incendiary effect in HEI rounds (which I know, at least in the minengeschoss rounds, is lacking compared to real life; they removed some of the HE filler in-game but never added in the incendiary that should have replaced it).
To my knowledge, they were actually right to do so. They removed a few grams of HE from the MG 151 minengeschoss, because in real life those few extra grams were incendiary, not HE. They just never actually added the incendiary in. This was, if I remember right, caused by someone making a report that MG 151 minengeschoss was classed as HEI, not HE.
EDIT: There’s a chance this is outdated information, but I think it’s still accurate.
I disagree with this somewhat. I used to think this in the past when I was very bad at gunnery in SB, but now that I’m mediocre I do find myself agreeing that some damage models are busted.
B17s do legitimately go down weirdly easily. On the flipside, B25s, Il-2/Il-4/Il-8 Ju-288s, B26s and Me264 seem to eat a lot of shells and just keep on flying. Especially the Ju-288 and B25.
Oh and PBMs. Those things seem to take a weird amount of punishment without a care in the world.
I’ve had plenty of games where I dove on a Il-4 in my C205 s1, got point blank and fired off a 2 second burst into its engine, did a lag roll and repeated some three times in a row until it finally caught on fire. Another time, counting frame-by-frame, I unloaded 6 rounds of mg151/20 into the right engine and it exploded into fire, raked the tail section with another 8 rounds and it kept on flying for a fair few minutes while burning.
Whereas I’ve intercepted a japanese B17 in my F4U-4B and lobbed a single burst (so 4x20mm) onto its wing and it went down promptly.
For fighters,
RB does make fighters tankier due to mouse aim. In SB, I’ve plenty of kills AND deaths where damage to a wing caused assymetric drag & lift which caused one wing to stall significantly earlier than the other wing and promptly enter a spin which due to the damage ruining stability might be irrecoverable. An orange wingroot or black wingtip - even without severing the wing - can become a death sentence.
Earlier today I flew out the C205 S1. It’s a plane that feels awfully stable in turns and I never depart flight with her when I’m not damaged. Well, I decided to try and shoot down a yer-2 and got all kinds of holes knocked into me. Result? When I tried fighting a Yak-9 I stalled out and spun into a tree because I didn’t realize my left wing was that badly damaged!
thats obscure to say the least. somebody probably whined about dying to that bullet in just the right way for the dev to accidentally not make it burn, id speculate it was a upset dev but that would require the devs to play the game
RB does make fighters tankier due to mouse aim. In SB, I’ve plenty of kills AND deaths where damage to a wing caused assymetric drag & lift which caused one wing to stall significantly earlier than the other wing and promptly enter a spin which due to the damage ruining stability might be irrecoverable. An orange wingroot or black wingtip - even without severing the wing - can become a death sentence.
I’ve had the same experience, but I think this can be attributed to the flight instructor making it significantly easier to fly with a damaged plane.
Some of the damage models are definitely messed up, I just think on average the mouse aim is a bigger factor. That said, when you see things like Yak-3s or premiums in general seemingly never wanting to take damage, you can’t really ignore that damage tends to be a bit lopsided.
I would partially agree but I think the answer is more nuanced on mouse aim as Adam the Engineerd had tested Mouse aim vs Sim cockpit with a stick and showed the two are more closely matched.
All these shots with a single 20mm would kill a P-47 in 1-2 shots in-game. when IRL we’ve seen how much damage they could take.
I think that it’s more of a factor of a plethora of unmodeled effects and the pilot factor that you simply cannot emulate.
Similarly, I find that the game gets flight damage wrong and how it removes lift makes no sense to what we’re currently seeing. At the same time. The flight instructor is suicidal when it comes to damaged aircraft. there’s times where I’m actually fighting the flight instructor to save a plane where when I swap to full real controls I will wind up with better chances.
