You said that this map has been fixed, but one side can still spawn camp, that is, when we go the way we use to go to point a in this map, we get spawn killed and the vehicle in front dies and blocks the ones in the back and they die in turn, so I have been playing this game for a year and when this map comes, I usually get out. because it’s almost cruel to go to point a, I’ve been noticing this for 1 year, but if you can’t notice it, it’s too bad, I’ve seen a lot of issues about it, is it possible to bring an update that will fix the gameplay of the game for once, can you spend time on such things instead of designing a new $ 60 premium?
38th para change is still on DEV server.
Wait for patch to see what they have changed and fixed. C side sniping is pretty much gone and North spawn camp spot towards A was removed.
1 Like
Both of which should have stayed as they explicitly stated that they would not remove those aspects but rather make it more equal for both teams… removing the sniping spots will kill the map just like the Vietnam change made the map absolutely unplayable and an auto leave whenever I get it
2 Likes
I actually did comment about this in DEV server topic. They dumb down so many maps. Remove snipe spots, remove elevations add ton of buildings to many maps.
Have to say I’m not a fan of any of the updated maps.
1 Like
more and more maps feel like ardennes
A large map with 0 sniping except for gremlin tanks
you drive 5 minutes to the twon in the center and then brawl… so noone respawns.
38th could be one of the best maps. C cap is already close to being good right now… South just needs a bit more elevation and cover on C so sniping is the main form of combat with short distance pushes towards A for the win (right now just north can play like that and South has more cover once on A making it rather unbalanced if South fails/succeeds the rush
removal of the spawn to A sniping from north to A is fine, but North then also needs a better approach towards B cap like south has (North can no go through the river so the fix is fast and simple, just give north the same river crossing as South).
Both sides should get their sniping spots for AB cap reworked so they can be used to fight those pushing your spawn/using your side of the map to advance on any cap, without direct fire into any of the caps ofcourse.
That way each team has a way to make a comback as pushing out into the enemy side of the map would be more dangerous and not safer as it is right now
As I said it is already a good map as it is essentially the easiest map design out there… two high points fighting for a low point so spawncamping is already much less likely to occure and you only need to balance cover on the caps and on the way to the caps so it does not devolve into 100% sniping with a last minute push into the caps after everything is killed.
3 Likes
Just seen the “improvements” done to this map, and I have to agree with Baum. I’m officially fed up.
I give Gaijin a lot of credit for the roadmap overall, it’s definitely exceeded expectations, but the butchering of the maps is something that just drives me crazy.
Where does Gaijin think, exactly, that it should make sense for players to spawn in sniping-oriented vehicles? Where is it supposed to be competitive to spawn a Dicker Max, a Waffentraeger, a Jagdtiger? I’d like to know. Because this was one of the few maps where they were still able to play to their strengths and have a serious impact on the game from the beginning.
It wasn’t an overpowered position, both the north and south spawn had great sniping spots that could engage each other, both spots were absolutely targetable by CAS, and maybe most importantly, beyond the initial sniping action, every further minute spent up there had a high opportunity cost, because to actually cap the points you’d eventually have to hop down and do what we always do in this game, CQC around caps!
Apparently, it’s not enough that most maps have effective engagement ranges lower than 500 metres. It’s not enough that these maps, on top of being more numerous, are also over-represented by the matchmaker. It’s not enough that the mission types invariably require getting up close and personal. On the few maps where snipers were competitive, every single avenue of long range engagement needs to be shut down. Just press W and what will be will be, right?
And even most of the large maps at this point just boil down to taking a long time to drive to the cap, where you can then have a 300m-range engagement anyway.
I know I’m venting, I’m sorry, this is a game, it’s not the end of the world. It’s just so frustrating to me right now, though. After Japan and Jungle, this is one more map where I am now competitively better off spawning something else, we’re quite clearly approaching 90% of maps being like that at this point.
What’s the point of having all this complexity of vehicles in game, if so many of them are completely unsuited to the vast majority of the maps?
Does Gaijin not want us using these vehicles anymore, so we keep games short and quick and queue times rapid? If so, I wish they’d say this much, at least. Or perhaps more likely, if we’re just “collateral damage” because there is such an overwhelming player preference for postcard-stamp-sized maps, at least say that. I’ll make my peace with it if it’s in the open like that.
I think 1DLing or going instantly back to hangar is bad for this game and my teammates, but I’m starting to think I should do it more often, especially with maps like Jungle and now 38th Parallel. Because if I had the option to ban multiple maps now, for sure I would ban so many out of sheer irritation at how overlooked an entire section of the tech trees is.
Definitely don’t feel like playing any of the aformentioned maps any time soon tbh.
EDIT: just seen what they’ve done to Middle East. I fully expected that they would get rid of the eastern sniping spot instead of giving both spawns an equally powerful spot, but the icing of the cake is whatever they’ve done to B, which turns this map into yet another instance of dumb lane shooting for the three caps; one where pretty much the only “disruptive” thing you can do is, as usual, to spawn in a rat light vehicle and flank A like crazy. A strategy that was viable before, and is very powerful now, since you can’t entrench anywhere.
Honestly at this point I just feel disheartened about the prospect that we’re ever going to be listened to on this matter, so I’m adding Middle East, 38th Parallel, Jungle, American Desert, and possibly more, to my “soft ban” list of maps: the ones where 1DL or back to hangar are absolutely ok.
1 Like
It’s the absolute worst map in the game for excatly those reasons.
In every game, all the dumb players sits on each side of C trying to snipe each other. They might as well not even be in the game for all they contributes.
1 Like
Not all vehicles are made for pushing caps. Not all players who snipe are dumb campers who can’t brawl.
One of my last matches before the change, I got 13 kills with the Jagdtiger from the southern spawn’s sniping spot. Come and tell me that’s not contributing to the match.
From there, by the way, B is 400 metres away, which means you can go cap it when you think it’s clear - done it myself plenty of times.
Turning War Thunder into an FPS does not “active gameplay” make.
Let’s just agree to disagree.
Normally 2/3 of each team sit and try to snipe each other on this map. While they pretty much cancel each other out, they do not do much to help win the game. We normally refer to the as “guinea pigs”.
1 Like
Things are not so black and white as you make them out to be, my friend.
When you kill an enemy, you dent their ticket pool by 100 tickets.
That is, obviously, quite little. Capping points is supremely more efficient at causing ticket bleed, which is one of the issues here, and one of the reasons why I said earlier that those sniping spots carry an opportunity cost. They’re a good spot to engage immediately, try and get a first strike, but passively sitting there all match could well lose you the game, and leaves the rest of your team with the hard work to do.
Of course, the flip side of this is that if your team does secure the caps, the only way left to further increase ticket bleed, is to kill enemy units. And locking down approaches to caps, or eliminating enemy snipers trying to do the same, does also help the team mates who are pushing.
And I’m sure you, like me, have seen your fair share of matches that were decided by kill-related ticket drain to zero when the situation on the caps was maybe stalled etc. And of course, if you do get that number of kills from a sniping position, you may very well get a nuke (at the appropriate BRs), which throws every other consideration out the window at the end of the day.
WT is a team game, and in an ideal team, you would have a combination of people doing everything: pushing, flanking, sniping, flying, using SPAA. That rarely happens because teams are randomly assembled, so you as the player often have to use your own judgement. When is the right time to move, and where? That is a soft skill that is very hard to learn, and probably impossible to teach, since it’s not really a conscious process.
To me, this isn’t a bad thing. It should be embraced.
You see a map where 2/3 of the team sit still and snipe. First of all, there is nothing inherently wrong with a map where sitting still can be advantageous; we already have an absolutely overwhelming majority of maps that encourage knife fights. But that’s also not even really the point. I see a map that tests players’ decision-making. Players who are inflexible - because they push forward when they shouldn’t, or sit passively still when it’s time to move - are punished, and their teams with them.
Players that know when to do what, are rewarded, and their teams with them.
I think that should be embraced, not rejected. We expect players in WT to learn so much. Shot drop and velocity, crew positions of the enemies they might face, weak spots, reload times of what they face, etc. I don’t see why maps should be any different.
I don’t see why we should prevent them from making mistakes - or on the flip side, trying something different that works - just so they can conform to a preset behaviour.
A bot tank can sit still and snipe, it’s true. But a bot tank can also drive straight forward for a cap, slug it out in CQC, and what will be will be. There’s more than one animal in the forest: guinea pigs… but also lemmings.
I don’t think we should dumb down maps, any more than we should dumb down weapon ballistics.
Oh, btw, there is also the balance issue, which remains unaddressed. Where should it be your best competitive option to spawn in a sniping vehicle? Cause right now the answer is “almost nowhere”.
I was thinking about writing about this topic, but after reading what you posted in the thread above, I have nothing left to add, I completely agree.
I can understand that gaijin wants to “cover” these places so as not to promote campers (although someone with bad thinking could think that what he is interested in is promoting quick battles…)
But we also have to think that depending on the vehicle, it cannot be used in the same way and as we can see, Gaijin has opted for simplicity regardless of the consequences, as is usual.
And when you begin to understand all this, the idea arises of… how can it be that a game that has always been proclaimed as a “realistic” game with vehicles faithful to reality but with battles completely opposite to reality (and also getting worse), I said idea, I’m not asking anything, I already know why, realism doesn’t sell.
1 Like
Imagine if we used the same logic to not promote lemming trains to a cap. Place an obstacle course on the way to the cap so people can’t get there fast, and only allow a maximum number of tanks per team to deploy towards one cap. After all, one of the primary reasons why teams lose is when everyone chooses the same cap and leaves 90% of the map open, completely giving up map control. Should we dicinsentivise that, too?
Players make mistakes. Lemmings are punished by dying way too fast, guinea pigs are punished by losing the match. In both instances, the problem isn’t the abstract behaviour (pushing or sniping) but the context in which it was done (and lack of skill in its execution). We can encourage players to learn and become better, provide better tutorials, whatever… or we can literally take away stuff so that their task becomes simpler. While completely screwing over the competitiveness of a non-trivial portion of the tech trees in the process.
I know which of the two I’d choose, that’s all I’ll say.
1 Like
Sorry but stupidity of the playerbase is no argument.
The map needed minor tweeks to be fair for both teams, the general gameplan was fine. Now it is a mess with 0 Plan and absolutely 1dimensional gameplay.
If a player is not capable to snipe, move, snipe, move, brawl, move,cap then he shoule not play any video games as even Pong and tetris would be to complex for them
2 Likes
This map is just to small for modern warfare. Like Ash River, it should be banned for anything higher than 4.7.
4.7 is 1930s tech…
the map is fine until almost 9.0
It was fantastic at 6.7.
Now, I’ve lost all interest in playing it. If I want CQC there’s already 90% of the other maps available in game anyway.
1 Like
You can literally drive in a walled canyon until nearly half way across the map. People thought this was an improvement?!
1 Like
Sure, because the guy killing you was fully visible and large in your screen since he was 300m away, and that makes it fair. :P