2S38 to 11.0

[AlvisWisla]

I’m not using anecdotal information.
It’s information gathering of balance [not necessarily taking into account their hard differences].
Cavenub’s KDR numerical among HSTVL, 2S38, Strf 9040C, and Begleit is .02. That’s the difference between all of them which indicates for Cavenub, 2S38 is balanced.

I used cross analysis to determine 2S38 should be 10.3 instead of 10.0.
Using players that own all 4 vehicles, 2S38 is “fine” at 10.0, but would also be fine at 10.3.

@Team_404_nyto
Well obviously they shouldn’t be the same BR.
They have differences, some major some minor.
Begleit lacks APFSDS flat out [it’d be more powerful than 2S38 with APFSDS due to having ITOWs as well]. And Strf 9040C uses 40mm APFSDS which has 24% less pen for a total of 168 flat and nearly 200mm of steel penetration angled.
Until Abrams and Type 90 are fixed, Strf 9040C is as capable against them as 2S38; which shouldn’t be the case to be honest and something we’ll likely agree on.

[Necronomica]

@AlvisWisla

I’m not using anecdotal information.

you are though. Using player experience and player statistics is the definition of anecdotal.
Anecdotal:
“(of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.”

[Team_404_nyto]

@AlvisWisla

all its compatriots to stay the same BR.

@AlvisWisla

Well obviously they shouldn’t be the same BR.

ehh……pls dont do this to me
I cant read english anymore

[TyphoonCro]

@AlvisWisla

it’d be more powerful than 2S38 with APFSDS due to having ITOWs as well

If it was TOW-2B with top-down detonating warhead then yeah, fair. But ITOW won’t be able to do much to ERA equipped tanks at higher tiers. It works great against tanks with no ERA but no tandem charge (like TOW-2A) will make it useless at higher BR.

[AlvisWisla]

@Necronomica
Creating the data post now.

@Team_404_nyto
Sorry, Team. I’ll do better in future posts to make my posts easier to understand.

[AlvisWisla]

@Necronomica
HSTVL - 2S38 - Begleit - Strf 9040C [Lvkv 9040C since same mass and I can test drive that].
None crewed as that would skew results due to some having expert crews, and others not.

In seconds:
0 - 50: 7 - 14 - 14 - 17
0 - 60: 11 - 19 - 22 - 24
0 - 70: 16 - Null - Null - Null. Begleit was the closest to getting to 70kph before the grass.
0 - 80: HSTVL in 22 seconds.
HSTVL is by far the fastest. 200% faster to 50KPH, 172% faster to 60. Inconclusive to further speeds. Other tanks ran out of road.
HSTVL is the only one capable of 80kph, getting within 2kph of its top speed in the time it takes Begleit to get to 60kph.

Evidence:

Spoiler

HSTVL - 2S38 - Strf 9040C.
Munition mass: 2.27 - 0.95 - 0.53
Munition: 100 meters;
Flat: 269 - 221 - 168
60 degrees: 310 - 256 - 194.
Strf 9040C has 76% the pen of 2S38, and 2S38 has 82% the pen of HSTVL. I consider 2S38 0.3 superior to Strf 9040C due to that difference, which means purely on penetration, if HSTVL was equal in all other ways to 2S38 and Strf 9040C I’d consider it 0.3 higher than 2S38 and thus 10.7 IF it was as-fast, as large, and so forth.

2S38 APCBC vs Begleit APCBC: 2.8kg - 2.7kg.
Flat: 147 - 133
60 degrees: 80 - 74
2S38 has filler.

Obviously APCBC is inferior to APFSDS for auto-lights, so all of the others win in that regard explaining Begleit’s 9.3 BR along with its ITOWs for more impact when needed.

Optic magnification/FOV: HSTVL - 2S38 - Begleit - Strf 9040C.
2x 38* - 8x 9*; 4x 19* - 9.4x 8*; 4x 19* - 12x 6*; 8x 9*.
HSTVL has the best by a 200% improvement in FOV over 2S38 and Begleit, and Strf 9040C gets shafted by the M60 syndrome.

Turret traverse:
I don’t have exact data on this at this time, All but Strf 9040C are capable of over 40 degrees per second though. And Strf 9040C’s is ~30 degrees per second.
So Strf 9040C is the “worst” among them.

Anything else I’m missing?

Let’s find 2 tanks whose only difference is speed.
BT-7M is 0.7 BR higher than BT-7.

So 0.3 BR higher than 2S38 for HSTVL’s round.
0.7 for its drastically higher speed.
And its superior optics FOV is mixed in with those two stats for HSTVL to deserve being 1.0 BR higher than 2S38.
I say deserve since I want 2S38 to be 10.3.

Edit: Here’s protection against 30mm AFPSDS:

Spoiler

Begleit shafted, HSTVL “most” armored.

[SemiPartician]

@AlvisWisla

No, I want 2S38 at 10.3, and all its compatriots to stay the same BR.

Mods, subdue him to the no-yapping chair

[SneedSellsFeed]

You’re having quite the fit?
Ah - you mentioning stats must have something to do with you claiming you get 6 kills on average, even though you have a 1.5 K/D. Quite the sad thing.

[SemiPartician]

On average, yeah, but if you would care to read. I mentioned that I only started playing the tornado a few days ago. Not years ago as your stats screenshots were from 2023. Please just go back to spreading your actual irritance, you’re like a fly during night time. You annoy anyone you’ve talked to on this forum except z-turds. Appreciate the input but thou is wrongeth everytime.

[SemiPartician]

Like the fact you cut off the reply, pussy.

[Just_Baron]

The point isn’t that any of those things are good, it’s that it has ALL OF THEM. If you need literally anything, it has it. It shouldn’t be a 10.0. It’s far to versatile. Not only does it match, if not surpass, light tanks of its BR range, but it also matches gun SPAA at the same BR. It’s absurd.

[SlowHandClap]

@PacketlossRedux

why ain’t you all crying about the BMP-2M ???

You see the BMP2M a lot less because it’s a squadron vehicle instead of a premium, but it is also broken OP too. Both the BMP2M and 2S38 are 10.3 vehicles minimum. They are only 10.0 so that they fit into/sell more of the uber 10.0 Russia lineup.

@Dinfire

Dropping you from the list as well, repeated sarcasm shows bad faith arguments. Goodbye.

They are a troll - they exist on the forum to get this kind of reaction from you. Just block and ignore, don’t give it the satisfaction.

[SemiPartician]

When did I ever cope about my statistics. I enjoy the game. Stats don’t matter, this isn’t fortnite kiddo.

[SneedSellsFeed]

@SemiPartician

When did I ever cope about my statistics.

“When did I ever cope about my statistics?”

@SemiPartician

Stats don’t matter, this isn’t fortnite kiddo.

@SemiPartician

On average, yeah, but if you would care to read. I mentioned that I only started playing the tornado a few days ago. Not years ago as your stats screenshots were from 2023.

@SemiPartician

Oo I know, pull up outdated stats again.

@SemiPartician

Stop yapping you know you lost, now let’s not get off topic by trying to black mail a UK main (impossible). Shut up you lost, no one gives a shit about your opinion

@SemiPartician

Shush. my SB and RB stats improved as well as the number of my RB games

@SemiPartician

Might I add you’re using old stats from over a year ago

This is my average air RB round:

[SlowHandClap]

@SneedSellsFeed

the point was to show off your clear seething and obvious animosity?

Pot. Kettle. Black.

@SneedSellsFeed

“When did I ever cope about my statistics?”

So saying statistics don’t really matter is coping about them? You’re the one who brings them up in every single thread, and apparently actually value WT statistics (lol).

[AlvisWisla]

The gun SPAA on-par with 2S38 are at 8.7 and 9.0… VEAK and M247.

@SlowHandClap
BMP-2M is not 10.3 capable without scouting giving more rewards, but that increases the BR of all scout-able tanks, not just BMP-2M.
I take 2S25M over BMP-2M, even when it only had 3BM46.
And if 2S25M goes up [it likely should] then I swap it out for an MBT since I have 2S38, which itself is superior to BMP-2M.
BMP-2M is a chronic 10.0. If it’s so OP then you should play it… oh you did. So it should have a way higher KDR than your other IFVs right? 0.474. Alright, let’s see if that’s significantly higher than your other IFVs. M3A3: 0.372. BMP-2: 0.63. Warrior: 0.506.
There is inconsistency, especially in your most balanced IFVs of BMP-2 and Warrior.
It appears you’ve had a lot of bad experiences with the Bradley though.

Oh… and you’ve played the 2S38, which you have an identical KDR to the HSTVL with.
No, I will not demean your performance. I do not care how well you perform in any vehicle as I just want you to enjoy the vehicles you operate.
I only bring up KDR to compare your performance of same-class vehicles of vehicles you claim to be OP.

There’s a reason when I claim that Jagdpanzer IV is OP its KDR is far above that of my other case mate tanks. My stats indicate it’s over-performing; and a deeper cross-analysis proves it further from it having armor and speed with a good gun.

[SneedSellsFeed]

I don’t think you realize that the 10.0 Swedish Lvkv9040C has two extra crew members, better gun depression (This is especially important because you somehow believe the 2S38 is survivable because of its unmanned turret - yet it doesn’t have enough gun depression to actually utilize it in most positions, especially ridges), HE-VT WITH a radar, almost full spall liner coverage and far better survivability.

[SneedSellsFeed]

@AlvisWisla

Oh… and you’ve played the 2S38, which you have an identical KDR to the HSTVL with.
No, I will not demean your performance. I do not care how well you perform in any vehicle as I just want you to enjoy the vehicles you operate.
I only bring up KDR to compare your performance of same-class vehicles of vehicles you claim to be OP.

There’s a reason when I claim that Jagdpanzer IV is OP its KDR is far above that of my other case mate tanks. My stats indicate it’s over-performing; and a deeper cross-analysis proves it further from it having armor and speed with a good gun.

This is a completely valid point. I personally gave up on not trying to demean their performance because these people are utterly delusional.

[SlowHandClap]

@AlvisWisla

If it’s so OP then you should play it… oh you did. So it should have a way higher KDR than your other IFVs right? 0.474. Alright, let’s see if that’s significantly higher than your other IFVs. M3A3: 0.372. BMP-2: 0.63. Warrior: 0.506.
There is inconsistency, especially in your most balanced IFVs of BMP-2 and Warrior.
It appears you’ve had a lot of bad experiences with the Bradley though.

I uptier both the BMP2M and 2S38 to 12.7, and I also use them both for getting the SP for CAS before J’ing out.

The warrior is 8.0, so I don’t know why you’ve included that into the comparison. The only valid comparison is the Bradley M3A3, which as you note I do significantly worse in.

Like I said, I don’t know how many times you lot need to be taught this lesson, but there is a reason using a sample size of one is invalid. Checking lifetime statistics from someone’s player card gives you zero context. Then there is the fact that certain types of people use multiple accounts to “boost” their player card statistics. The grind is bad enough in this game, the fact that people are willing to repeat it just to have a better looking player card is honestly depressing.

@SneedSellsFeed

This is a completely valid point.

As if I needed to add any more evidence you’re wrong - Sneed went ahead and agreed with you. That’s pretty damning.

[AlvisWisla]

So you allegedly bring vehicles to BRs they are less effective at, but your stats don’t indicate that.
Cavenub is known to play at BR and their stats are all in-line.
I’m known to play at-BR and my stats are in-line.
And cross-analysis shows that 2S38 is 10.3 capable despite many players performing as well in it as their Strf 9040C experience.
However, cross-analysis shows nothing for BMP-2M.

As for Sneed inappropriately insulting you and others, their agreement with the point doesn’t reduce the point’s validity.