Is that the case with Begleitpanzer?
It has dual feed, right?
bagel has it puma as well bradley should have it iirc about dardo and co ? no idea
Also even the marder has a dual feed…
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dardo should have it too, pretty much all bushmaster ingame should have it
Rather than 11.0 the 2S38 should be increased in BR to 11.3 the same as the Otomatic.
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Cause the OTOMATIC fires a superior round and players keep doing well with it.
OTOMATIC’s round is not as weak as 2S38’s.
The Otomatic has access to an APFSDS round sporting 311 penetration.
The 2S38 has access to an APFSDS round sporting 225 penetration.
Neither are full caliber so spalling is a matter of volume of fire.
The 2S38 can take a full belt of this round, the OTOMATIC is limited to 13 rounds of APFSDS.
Comparing these two vehicle’s offensive capabilities on the ground is asinine.
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Imagine deathmachine 2S38 and the anemic Boxer MGS share the same BR of 10.3…
Balancing in WT is not exactly fair.
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The 2S38 shares the same BR as the PUMA while outperforming the PUMA in I’m pretty sure every metric. Better SPAA, better pen, and better post pen damage. Neither vehicles are survivable, they are light tanks, especially after the modules change. Difference is that the 2S38 has a high chance of disabling any MBT from the front with even one shot and definitely 2-3 shots and afterwards can kill any MBT that is sitting there disabled.
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Puma is faster and more armored.
2S38 has a vastly superior round.
Now, whether that reality warrants same BR IDK, all I know is Puma’s in a 10.3/10.7 lineup irrelevant of its BR being 10.0 or 10.3.
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Come on man, you have to give ground somewhere. Either admit the HSTVL needs to come down in BR closer to the 2S38 or admit that the 2S38 needs to go up in BR closer to the HSTVL. Right now you’re just saying “Rules for thee and not for me”. Do you ever get exhausted from your mental gymnastics?
EDIT: Glad I decided to fact check you because the PUMA and 2S38 share the same top speed but nice try.
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@Cythraul98
2S38 already went up in BR.
Top speed =/= total fastness. Acceleration is also an aspect.
HSTVL is the fastest tank in the game firing the 2nd best round out of auto-cannons, with Leopard 2K and Type 90 being 3rd fastest, VT1-2 is 2nd.
2S38 isn’t anywhere close to top 10, Puma likely isn’t either.
As for my consistent rules I apply to all vehicles, that is the opposite of “rules for thee”.
HSTVL is 1 - 1.3 BRs superior to 2S38 as proven by many other tanks in War Thunder.
Your posts defend 2S38 for never using it.
At least my criticisms of it are after using it and its analogues.
Puma’s a false-equivalence fallacy BTW as they’re separate platforms.
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The 2S38 essentially did not go up in BR. It was a decompression move by Gaijin that moved every vehicle around 10.0 and higher at the same time to give decompression to the lower BR’s.
I’m glad you mentioned acceleration or “power to weight” as it is commonly called because the PUMA is twice the weight of the 2S38 while also having twice the engine power so their acceleration is ALSO the same. Keep grasping at straws though. So again, how does the 2S38 belong at the same BR as the PUMA?
It has twice the penetration as the PUMA while having the same acceleration, same top speed, and the same survivability (they are both light tanks and both are resistant to machine guns while both are penned by autocannons). And the 2S38 functions as an anti-everything vehicle due to it’s extremely potent HE-VT rounds.
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Well, the 2S38 idea is a bit less survivable. The gun dpression also does not allow it to pulldown as well as the Puma. However, I do agree with you that the 2S38 is a bit under BRed still. But I also think that it’s not better than the HSTVL, especially since this got a proxy and IRST. I would myself put the 2S38 more around 10.7-11.0, while keeping the HSTVL at around 11.3-11.7
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2S38 went up in BR, that’s what decompression partially means.
I got what I wanted: Soviet CV9040C moved up.
Now they’re even rarer and more situational because all of the MBT contemporaries are just as fast with more armor and better lethality.
2S38 primarily serves its scouting role now.
@vizender
2S38 11.0 means HSTVL 12.0 MINIMUM [and CV9040C at 10.7], otherwise it’s objectively “rules for thee”.
Cause HSTVL stock is already superior to a spaded [I know its a premium] 2S38 in speed and ammo.
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No point continuing this conversation. You are so all over the place defending your precious premium vehicle. Best of luck with your 11.0 vehicle that is at 10.3.
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HSTVL is not a premium vehicle, nor is the HSTVL 10.3, nor is the HSTVL anywhere close to as weak as any production vehicle as any vehicle that makes it to production is going to be inferior to prototypes that failed due to cost.
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I absolutely don’t agree with that point. The 2s38 is significantly better than the CV. It has a much better gun, with better penetration. It’s, I believe, far more mobile, and in some aspect has better survivability due to the back still being empty and the crewels design. It also works much better as an anti air, be it drones, helicopters or planes thanks to its IRST.
When it comes to MBT lethality, from 9.0 to top tiers, everything kills the 2S38 the same way. They are not more or less lethal to the 2S38. The weak spots and kill areas are the same when facing a 2S38.
As for their armor, well duh. In my honest opinion you should not have a light auto cannon tank be able to shred through MBT’s frontal armor. The 2S38 never had any reason to face things like 9.3 leopard 1s and AMX
The 2S38 should primarily serve its SPAA role (which it does quite well against everything that is not a supersonic jet). It can still scout and easily disable/kill MBTs, just not like a MBT, but as a flanker, just like you have to use all other auto cannons around the BR (CV90, PUMA, VBCI…)
As you said, 2S38 is a premium, so speaking of it stock does not make sense. I think we will keep our disagreement at that, because I think the 2S38, while worse than the HSTVL, should not be at such a lower BR. But, compression and decompression at this BR already does not make sense. I’d rather compare the HSTVL to a light Type 10/90, to which it’s at a coherent BR imo.
My issue is not with the 2S38 being so far from the HSTVL, but with it still facing 9.3 which does not make sense to me
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@vizender
IF Type 90 and Abrams got their turret rings fixed, I’d agree that 2S38 is 0.7 BR difference.
The only notable difference between 2S38 and CV 9040C are pen and speed, the difference is less than that of HSTVL which is double acceleration rate of 2S38.
Anti-air doesn’t matter because its BR is already higher than its anti-air capability.
If 2S38 was balanced around its anti-air it’d be 9.7, if it was mixed anti-air and anti-tank it’d be 10.0 again.
If HSTVL was balanced around anti-air it’d be 9.3/9.7.
If Puma was balanced around anti-air it’d be 9.0.
If OTOMATIC was balanced around its anti-air it’d be ~10.0.
I also didn’t speak of 2S38 stock.
So you want to buff it, cause any sort of balancing 2S38 around its SPAA capabilities are exclusively buffs. Lower spawn points, lower BR, etc.
The BR difference between HSTVL and 2S38 is shared among over half a dozen other tanks.
Oh, and CV9040C pens Leopard 1s at the same rate as 2S38.
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Puma’s armor is better only when you completely isolate it from outside factors, i.e the match, i.e the vehicles it actually has to face (~130mm of KE protection in the grand scheme of things is, when you actually insert the vehicle into a realistic scenario, no different from having the 50mm that 2S38s armor offers), 100% of MBT grade projectiles have absolutely zero issues with making it seem like it doesn’t have any armor. The only vehicles that can and will struggle with it are IFVs with cannon calibres below 35mm and don’t shoot APFSDS, so ye, Puma has armor against most IFVs (only from the front), it doesn’t have armor against anything else, and MBT make up (from my experience) at least 80% of the enemy’s team composition. On the other hand, some IFVs also have ATGMs that make Puma’s armor absolutely irrelevant.
If you compare how effective their armors are against each other, its whoever fires first, as 2S38 has more than enough penetration for whatever protection Puma’s armor can offer, but in exchange it cannot deal with Puma’s 30mm either.
If you compare them based on what they face at 10.3, neither armor matters. What matters there is reaction time (gun-handling) and firepower, both of which are in 2S38s favor as its horizontal aiming speed is +/- 60 degrees per second (in comparison to 45 for the Puma), and obviously 3UBM22 is far superior to PMC287.
So you can remove that “more armored” from your post, and let “faster” stand alone. In any case, Puma and 2S38 being at the same BR is a mistake, and either Puma has to go down (not really), or 2S38 needs to go up (more preferable).
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How is it the fastest? If the Stryker is faster than it? You are spouting nonsense again.
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