I think I’m starting to see the issue, you’ve misunderstood me and I’ve misunderstood what you meant by criticism.
Let me explain this simply. We’re in a thread talking about the 2S38 where the author is complaining that it’s too powerful and criticizing the vehicle for being too strong for it’s own BR. Then we have people defending the vehicle, saying it’s actually weak and should stay at the BR where it’s at. It’s context dependant.
Hope that clears things up regarding what I meant.
You should use “over-criticize” instead of “defend”.
Over-criticize is both correct, and sounds stronger.
“Your post seems to be over-criticizing 2S38; are you attempting to keep it the same BR?”
That’s fair, I can see how that could make it even clearer.
Why does the 2S38 sit at the same BR as the Otomatic? The vehicles have similar performance.
They are not the same BR, the 2S38 is at 10.3 and the Otomatic is at 11.3.
Similar performance?
The Otomatic has about 50% more penetration in its APFSDS round and a radar to guide its proxy rounds.
The Otomatic is going to, on average, get a much higher score than the 2S38 per spawn if they were on similar BR’s.
Does the Otomatic have 200 rounds of this APFSDS?
Do you equate 13 rounds of possible penetration against 200?
Both will struggle to penetrate frontal armor outside of weakpoints, which would you rather have? 200 rounds or 13?
Number of rounds carried won’t effect the average score to any meaningful degree.
If you actually aim your shots you wont need much more than like 3-4 shots to get a kill either way.
If you actually aim your shots 100mm of penetration isn’t going to effect your ability to kill.
yes it can, because at some point the random scatter of the round is going to outweigh your aim in relation to the area that you can penetrate (as well as at what angles you are able to do so).
it can also effect the post pen damage. If the round has energy enough to continue through, let say the mantlet, and injure/knock out crew or not. Both might be able to pen the mantlet but one only gets the breach whilst the other might kill 2-3 crew (depending on target and circumstance of course).
It may be possible that having 200 rounds to afford those misses will help with that.
Again where volume of fire matters. 13 rounds of 76mm APFSDS which sports rather horrible post pen versus 200 rounds of 57mm post pen which is equally terrible.
This is all ignoring that the 2S38’s round storage is reloaded tremendously faster than the OTOMATIC’s. Not only do you expend your 13 APFSDS shells, you’re going to be struggling to kill planes such is your purpose due to lack of shells stowed.
already taken into account by me averaging 3-4 round per kill with either vehicle. you are either going to be able to get to a cap and reload or get killed at the point of having 3 kills in either vehicle anyway.
in general yes, but as i stated:
So there are absolutely cases where it well matter, and if there are, they are going to add up and show in the average score.
I don’t know enough here to answer to this.
In general; BR is calculated on average efficiency, the Otomatic is going to have a higher average score and thus place higher in BR. It’s just math. Small changes add up, there are MANY vehicles that are VERY similar with just one or two things changed but that made enough difference in efficiency to warrant a BR increase.
200 rounds of APFSDS? In a single match using 2 rounds per person, you expect a 2S38 with its 148 rounds to get 77 ground kills?
There’s a reason I only bring ~40 APFSDS rounds in 2S38, not going to use more than that, and that’s at least 15 frags worth of ammo.
HSTVL’s 26 rounds of APFSDS is apparently 10 frags worth of ammo since I fragged 5 people without dropping below 14 rounds.
This is great as every amount of ammo you just stated is more than the OTOMATIC’s available load.
There are way more aspects to consider than the additional penetration, 12 rounds of APFSDS and let’s say you use 4 per tank you kill, what’s that, max 3 kills before you’ll have to run back to resupply? The Ottomatic is also no vehicle to flank in, with it being taller than the Burj Khalifa everyone will see you coming from a mile away. Generally, your best bet is relying on the luck of an incompetent enemy, or not running into a 122/2A7.
Everything a light tank is made to excel in the Ottomatic can’t compete. It also lacks an LWS and Gen 3 Thermals compared to the 2S38. (Instead having Gen 1)
They’ll most likely be pretty similar in efficiency when played by somewhat experienced people, but the number of inexperienced people who purchase the 2S38 will tank its efficiency, IMO.
Ain’t that the truth of it.
If it takes you 4 rounds to frag a tank with OTOMATIC’s round… not a good look.
Either way 3 ground frags MINIMUM is more than enough for a dedicated SPAA.
So by your logic the 2S38 should be more than a BR higher than the PUMA because it has 100 mm more penetration than the PUMA, better post pen damage, and an HE-VT round. The 2S38 only has 50 mm less penetration than the HSTVL.
answered:
Same with the 2S38, its actually quite tall compared to many other similar vehicles. As well as having one of the worst depression angles for a light automatic tank meaning that you have to show a lot more of it over a hill to be able to shoot.
This however is an interesting point, and one of the questions i have asked Gaijin but yet to have goten an answer for.
Like, when calculating BR, are only fully spaded vehicles counted?
Is the player skill taken into account? (like if i have a kdr of 2:1 in all the CV90’s but a 3:1 in the 2S38, will that be taken into account?)
is the BR range of vehicles it faces taken into account? like if i consistently bring a CV9040C to top BR so the 10.3 light tank only faces and kills/get killed by 12.0 vehicles, will that affect the efficiency score?
2S38 is free kill if you see him first tbh, 10.7 would be high enough for it.
Also, if the ammo box mechanic remains as in the dev you are going to get up to 26 apfsds without needing to resuply on a flag