I want to get my hands on an M-84D with LAHAT GL-ATGM’s.
However, from my understanding Croatia never really procured new APFSDS-T rounds and still produce older Soviet rounds. Did they ever procure anything from Israel like the M711 or M711/8 APFSDS-T rounds since they purchased LAHAT’s from them or produce their own new APFSDS-T rounds? I feel like I’ve asked this a long time ago but I forgot lol. I do want to know since it could greatly affect its BR.
No, Croatian and Slovenian M-84 tanks still use old M88 (BM-15) rounds. However, according to a Serbian military forum user Slovenia considered acquiring BM-42 rounds back in the '90s in return for debt repayment, but ultimately decided not to.
That’s right, I remember you telling me that. Thanks mate.
So it should have the loadout of (based on in-game values):
Name/Type:
This should also apply to the M-84A4 as well right? Minus maybe the LAHAT?
That would likely place the M-84D at like 10.3-10.7 and the M-84A4 at like 9.7-ish. If the M-95 had a similar loadout minus the LAHAT and better ERA placement so the vehicle wouldn’t be able to exceed 10.7, absolute max 11.0 due to ammunition constraints unless Gaijin just gave it ammo it wouldn’t have used for balance purposes.
Gaijin does of course add ahistorical shells to vehicles or takes away shells that were historically used in order to balance vehicles.
I wouldn’t be surprised to find some more modern Soviet/Russian shells on these tanks for the purposes of balance.
Edit: just saw you mentioned that after I already responded, my bad on that.
The Medium and Heavy vehicles tab of the Unused Vehicles section has been updated.
Additionally, I have made new images of the large tree for a better resolution while also having fixed some of the names in that tree.
Due to a character limit on the forums I have decided to give the unused vehicles an external Google Docs link where information and images are written. This is where the new Medium and Heavy vehicles can be read about. I have also adjusted the Light Vehicles tab to fit with this change.
A great thank you to user @YugoSlav for providing many images and sources for these Medium Vehicles that I had trouble with.
+1 for realistic tech tree.
A large update with several changes to the tree.
BR changes
Due to the recent decompression of BR we were required to update some of the previous vehicles.
This change has been applied to some copy/paste vehicles, vehicles very similar to ones already present in game and a few ones out of our own opinions.
Listed vehicles and changes:
AMV MTC-30 (9.0 → 9.3)
AMX-10P (6.7 → 5.3)
BOV-3 (7.7 → 5.7)
BVP M-80 (7.0 → 7.3)
BVP M-80A (7.3 → 7.7)
BVP M-80A1 (7.7 → 8.0)
LKOV Valuk (8.0 → 8.3)
M-55S (8.3 → 8.7)
M53/59/70 (7.0 → 6.7)
M60A3 TTS (8.7 → 9.0)
SPAT 30/2 (7.7 → 8.3)
T-55A (8.0 → 8.3)
T-55 L/60 removed from the tree, added to unused SPAA list
BOV-3 moved to rank IV between AMX-10P and M53/59/70
New folders
With Gaijin’s new announcement regarding rank structure and folders, we had to fix our trees to suit the new standard that Gaijin has set.
As of now the big tree has been updated but work is still being done on the realistic tree.
Along with this we are also working to make the names and BRs across our presented trees uniform and adding new vehicles to the realistic tree.
New folders:
Pz.IV G and Pz.IV J have been moved into a folder with Pz.III N.
OT M-60PM has been added to a folder with the OT M-60PB
SO-76 M-18 has been added to the M36 mod and M36B1 mod folder
Unused SPAA list
An external link has been added for the unused SPAA vehicles where details and images can be found.
If there are any missing vehicles then feel free to contact us!
Added the Stuart (PaK40) in big tree
We are not sure how we missed this occurrence, but the Stuart (PaK40) apparently wasn’t present in the big tree. We have added it now at rank III in the light vehicles line.
An M3A3 Stuart that had its turret removed by the Yugoslav partisans in favor of a 75mm PaK-40 cannon.
Two of these vehicles were made, with one reportedly taking out a German T-34.
These vehicles would be uniquely Yugoslavian, though based on an American platform.
Mobility: Identical to M3A3 Stuart
Armor: Resistent to 37mm on hull, vulnerable to 12.7mm on turret
Crew: 4-5
Links:
Deserves to be in game.
One thing you missed in regards to the T-34-85 is that you can clearly can see a 12.7mm hidden under some cloth/tarps but the specs forgot to mention it i.e the Yugoslavian T-34-85 more specifically the T-34-85’s operated by Rep. Srpska which the pic shows is closer to the T-34-85 Gai in the Chinese TT than the T-34-85 in the Soviet or Swedish/Finnish TT’s
I have updated the image to be a T-34-85 proper rather than the depicted T-34B.
Alongside this I also fixed the M-84 and M-84A images, which were wrong too.
Thank you for your insight!
After taking a closer look at the vehicles not being included, I have a few comments.
That’s all, and they are obviously things that can be decided by Gaijin.
Hi JamesPond, glad to see you again!
The M15 is mainly in the tree due to its relative significance for the Yugoslav army, being the first “proper” SPAA the army received after the war.
We could perhaps look into a better alternative, though I personally don’t really see what I would consider a better alternative.
I’ll ask the other tree creators too, but what is your take?
I personally don’t believe a 1.0 gap is too bad for SPAA, but I could ask the other tree creators for their input on this too.
As for the Blitz with triple MG-151 mount, I don’t think it would be able to plug the gap between Brko and AMX-10P either, considering that it would mean the truck with some guns would have to sit at a higher BR than the Wirbelwind, which I don’t think would make a whole lot of sense. Then again, the MG-151 is arguably a superior cannon to what the Wirbelwind has mounted. Again, will bring up with other tree creators.
We don’t quite think the TAM-110 SPAA platforms made by Serbia and the BOV-3AX are quite necessary for the tree, considering that the SPAA lines are well balanced and fleshed out at the BRs that these vehicles would find themselves at. The vehicles can be found in the Unused Vehicles list for SPAA however and would in reality be perfectly fine alternatives to the presented vehicles.
This is mostly applicable to the ‘big tree’ though, as the BOV-3AX can still be found presented in the realistic tree.
I’m glad to say that the OT M-60PB is present in both big and realistic trees. It is present there at rank IV in both trees as well as both having it in their light vehicles lines. It may seem a little strange to put it there instead of the tank destroyer lines, but we did this mostly to prevent bloat in the tank destroyer line while also not thinking it is too out of place in the light vehicles line anyways.
The M3A3 PaK 40 is also present in both the big and realistic tree at rank III and rank II respectively. The BR and rank isn’t the same in the trees though and we are looking into making this more uniform.
As for the BTR-50S, it is present in the realistic tree but not the big one. Because our interpretation of the vehicles BR is 8.0, we think that it fits well with the realistic tree as a unique option, but is redundant in the big tree at the BR it finds itself at. Perhaps as a result of our efforts to make the trees more uniform we could see to the addition of BTR-50S in the big tree.
Thank you on your input!
Thank you for your detailed reply!
Perhaps the BOV M16 with the minigun? I realize it is very modern, but it is unique to Serbia. That being said, I do see your point regarding its historical significance. That does make sense.
I was a bit confused by the layout of the vehicles in the text-based vehicle list and didn’t notice that the Wirbelstuart was at 4.0. That being said, the triple MG151 at 3.0 would still be nice to have.
I personally think having the TAM-110 in the place of the NTV MTU-4M would be a good choice, as it offers missiles plus guns. The BOV-3AX I can understand. I like it as a vehicle, but there are a lot of options, and the PASARS-16 might even be a better one.
I totally missed that! It was in the “unused vehicles” section and that threw me off.
Once again, I looked in the TD line and missed it in the LT line. Glad to see it!
That totally makes sense. I just like the BTR-50 in general, and modifications that turn it into an IFV have always fascinated me.
I also hope we can get more information on the M-628AC/AR and M-636D. They deserve spots, but it is unfortunate we don’t have more info.
Thank you for listening!
I did consider the BOV M16 with M134 armament, but it seems a bit “too esoteric” for such low tiers. It’d definitely be among the more interesting SPAA options in game though.
I understand that, it is a bit cluttered when working with all the spoilers. Perhaps I could look into something to make the text more distinct from one another.
Your point about the TAM-110 is quite fair. I will take it into consideration and discuss it with the other creators.
That in turn is something that I missed. I will have it fixed asap!
I have already asked my colleagues and they agree with me to add the BTR-50S in the big tree. I will likely do this in the form of an event/premium/squadron vehicle, not quite sure yet but it will happen.
I hope to go to the VTI archives and ask about the obscure projects that Yugoslavia worked on during the cold war, namely the M-320, M-628 and M-636. Not sure when this will happen, but the possibility is being looked into.
Yes ! So much potential its unreal.
+1 Israel should be a sub TT and Yugoslavia should be a TT.
Where did that Israel bit come from? It’s already it’s own tech tree.
I don’t think having and M134 at that Battle Rating makes absolutely no sense. What about a TAM 110 armed with single 20mm auto-cannon ? It would be similar to Japanese Type 94 at 1.3. (I think this one used by separatist (?) I’m no expert on this matter so it might be slightly controversial.)
Another unique option would be Croatian M-91 Straško. It it would be slightly better than Type 94 which sits at 1.3, could be placed 1.7 to replace CGMC.
Specifications and history of M-91 Straško (You might need to use translate)
Yet another unique option would be TAM 80 armed with twin M2 12.7mm Machine-Gun:
Another similar vehicle, Mercedes 508D 4x2 armed with twin KPV 14.5mm Machine-Gun:
Yet another one, TAM 110 armed with M75 20mm Auto-Cannon designated as TAM-AA/AA-2:
If those looks too modern for low tiers, there is many more contender Gun Trucks using 14.5mm to 20mm based on 5-Ton FAP-13, TAM-80, TAM-100 and TAM-150. I just do not have enough time to cover all of them but if you wish I can provide information of those vehicles in short time. @Mahiwew
I also found this unique M18 modification, it is said to have mine clearing chains. It is designated as M18 IMCV, it could be unique premium/event vehicle.
Said M18 IMCV
Another unique option would be Croatian M-91 Straško. It it would be slightly better than Type 94 which sits at 1.3, could be placed 1.7 to replace CGMC.
The Strasko is more akin to the Italian R3 or the Japanese SUB-I-II than the Type-94 so it will more likely be 5.3 at the lowest, possibly be as high of a BR as 6.7
