I don’t understand how you manage to miscontrue everything that is said. Top tier wasn’t designed by Gaijin, or thought up in any way. It happens with ranking systems. If you don’t understand that whatever is the highest ranked vehicle automatically becomes top tier until something is added after it then I don’t know what to tell you.
I am very aware of how the matchmaker works, and you get uptiers more often than downtiers. Also, uptier/downtier frequency are dependant on battle rating. If you play 9.3 for example, youll get uptiered constantly because 10.0 and 10.3 are more popular than 8.7 and 9.0. CAS exists because Warthunder was a plane game before anything else.
There is no “fault” when it comes to this split the battle ratings or era matchmaking. Heavy tank players don’t like it because then they aren’t invincible all the time. This is an instance of “the smallest minority is the loydest”. The heavy tank players yell about how unfair it is and that the heavy tanks shouldn’t play early cold war because it isn’t fair that slow armored tanks get kill by heat rounds. That isn’t how the majority of the playerbase feels, and Gaijin knows that. If it wasn’t the case, then it would have happened already. It isn’t a good idea to create any gap in the battle ratings.
I really hate this idea of “only dumb kids enjoy stuff that isnt historical”. I would take the historical mm crowd more seriously if they didnt have this mindset.
Do you think I just make this up for fun? I read it on this forum. Many don’t care what they share a map with, they are in the game for scores not any kind of immersion.
Are a child bro ? Nobody is making a pathetic statement like that, that is your pathetic statement :)
Grow up bro you can see what the OP is saying nothing about hEavY taNk players ,German mains or any other cliche you can throw in its simply asking for some form of era separation ,same argument in ARB as well.
Whats with the BR rating history lesson? Off topic
So here you are defending top tier as it is currently while telling us a new top tier would never and could never work . …fine effort lol
What he’s saying is that a top tier is inevitable. There’s always going to be a top and bottom tier in a tier system, there’s no possible way to design around it. What we’re arguing here is that we shouldn’t be creating more top and bottom tiers.
It’s also very funny that on the one hand, you’re arguing that the most players have comtempt for history and thus have no interest in historical matchmaking because they’re
And on the other you’re loudly complaining about a similar sweeping generalization that all people who like historical matchmaking are heavy mains who want to be invincible. The irony is palpable.
I dont see how top tier being inevitable is relevant. Obviously it inevitable, changes nothing. If top tier works, then it works anywhere in the game or it does not work so which is it? Top tier in Div 2 is no different from current top tier that is the whole point, there is no tier above top tier so suck that up.
If you are saying top tier does not work then you are saying War Thunder does not work. You cant just bring that point up only when a two-division system is mentioned.
There is no argument, we have a forum full of comments made by players who have stated that ,there is no mystery there.
You are the one making irrelevant sweeping generalization I am the one agreeing with the OP that a two division system and some form of era separation for game play reasons is a good idea.
I have no intention of descending into a petty pissing contest, this is not the house of representatives or parliament. Yes we have kids who just want rack up score and we have ex-servicemen/women and history buffs on the same game, get over that ,I have had to.
What I’m saying is that top and bottom tier creates an unequal matchmaker that does ruin the BR bracket for whatevers on the lower end. Play at reserve tier, and all you’re going to get is 2.0 games since there’s no lower ranked players to create top tier games for the reserves. The only escape they get is the new player MM. Players with experience who want to grind a new line have to just suffer.
Same at top tier, whatever BR is 1.0 lower than top tier is going to see constant uptiers and very few downtiers for the same reason. This was much more of an issue in ARB recently, the entire 11.0 BR roster was rendered entirely useless by the 12.0 F-16s a while back. But the same is true for tanks.
Creating an arbitrary split in the MM introduces two new tiers where that happens. Heavies will be either incredibly buffed or made 100% useless depending on which side of that line they fall. Imagine playing an IS-3 or T32 that can only see uptiers. Or imagine playing a 5.7 that can only see uptiers into Tiger II Hs and T26E5s.
Why ? It doesn’t really amount to much other than giving older slower heavies some relevance. In reality they were ditched for faster and lighter, so its becoming a case of “Why bother at all ?” in game.
You wont ,you will have down tiers as well. It will be no different from the top tier we have. It will also be a good place for Gaijin to spend some time with the lesser nations filling gaps and making the game fair even for nations like the USA which needs balance around tier IV
As has been stated, it would create another prema-uptier and perma-downtier. Not to mention the large amount of post war vehicles made obsolete by being effectively moved like 2.0-4.0br up
I would much rather have gaijin fix it in a different way.
Spend like 3 updates where they
1:increase max br
2:dont add new top tier stuff
3:add more low/mid rank vehicles
This would push more heatfs tanks above the late war heavies and give some more “natural” opponents for them to face.
Theoretically possible, but unlikely, for the reasons above. That top of tier IV, 6.7 MM is already a very popular one, make it uptier immune and all of a sudden you’re going to have a bulk of players who play nothing but that. Creating a giant MM black hole that sucks up what few players still try to make 5.7 work into constant 6.7 games. It’s just basic logic here, a if 6.7 outnumbers 5.7 by several orders of magnitude, and 6.7 cannot be uptiered, guess what happens to the 5.7 tanks?
You also didn’t address the other half of that problem, which I have to hope isn’t because you don’t care about it as you have no intention of playing those vehicles. That problem is arguably even worse because at least 5.7 could possibly, once in a blue moon see a downtier. 7.0 never will.
What are they going to put there? While there are still vehicles yet to add to these nations, there are very, very few minor nation vehicles that would fit into that late WW2/early Cold War area. What would Sweden get? Italy? Japan? Hell, France was actively developing vehicles during this period, and even they don’t have anything else to add here. They jumped straight from the ARL-44 to the autoloading, ocsillating turret designs that make up 7.7.
Era matchmaking is never talked about in Air RB. I know that because I main aircraft and know already that there is no era that it can be split at. Noone talks about WW2 prop/jet aircraft being split from cold war jets. The problem in Air is when certain missiles begin to appear on vehicles. The solution there would be decompression, but the current state of Air vehicles already surpasses ground vehicles by a full br, so decompression can’t happen until things are redone. Hopefully Gaijin handles that with the air/ground br changes according to the roadmap.
I’m not defending it, I said that it was inevitable. There is nothing that you can do about it in a game with a layout like Warthunder. World of Tanks has the same problem because it has a tier system and the top tier vehicles cause issues for the vehicles below them when they play together. Splitting the battle ratings would cause the same problems that you see at 11.7, but now at 6.7 or whatever battle rating you pick to split it at. You have been the one that said top tier is flawed and broken, but then say you want to create a new one at the top of the split. Then you create even more problems with 7.0 or whatever the new starting point above the split would be where the starting vehicles have no chance than to face stronger vehicles all the time. Progressing through that area would be even worse than it is now.
You must not know the meaning of the word inevitable. It means unavoidable. You can’t change the existence of top tier without completely changing how Warthunder classifies vehicles. They aren’t going to do that, ever. It isn’t because they don’t want to, it is because it is to fundamental of a change. The irelevant thing is whether or not top tier works well or not, because there is nothing that anyone can do to change it, short of designing an entirely different game.
You do realise this is a description of top tier? You are basically stating that top tier doesn’t work. Now I might not be disagreeing but it’s a big statement to make, that the ultimate destination for many on WT is an inherently unworkable. situation.
It also highlights how big an issue any uptier at any point is to destroy a game before it even starts.
You only argument to a two tier division is to highlight existing faults to the game. So we either just accept those faults as we have done for years or we are all pledging our allegiance to a game that is inherently unworkable. You are telling a top tier would not work yet we have had a top tier for years.
Er…yes it is and you can find it on this forum. Mostly under the Jets vs Props issue but also where Phantoms fight Mig 17 etc etc . I don’t main Aircraft but I can read a forum thanks. The whole Idea of the Me262 not even appearing in a WW2 canon is also noted and has been even on the old forum.
So if there is nothing, we can do about it then what difference does it make if we have the same issue at Tier IV as we have in top tier, like I said it’s not imposing a new mechanic just repeating an existing and longstanding mechanic we all have to accept and have done for years.
So lets make this spilt and accept he inevitable while improving the game for many.
Society can create equal pay for men and women doing the same job , it wont make women physically equal to men but it will make the life experience better and that is all the OP and those like him want. The same old faults but many of us in a better place. Hopefully all sticking around playing and most importantly to Gaijin, spending.
Maybe the whole Idea of the uptier has unraveled to the extent that all those who get an up tier ODL leaving those who are equal or down tired left. That would mean that ODL would decimate top tier.
If you argument against a top tier in Div 2 is so strong that div 2 cant exist then Div one must also be the same and should not exist either. Pure logic. Either they
both work or both fail. So have players spent 12 years and possibly hundreds of pounds/dollars etc on a game that is inherently faulty?