Wrong ZLT11 turn diameter, Gaijin's arrogant reply

[他妈的打歪了]

Is there a major error in the turning diameter of the ZLT11?

• Yes
• No

[Can “the model not allow” be a reason for rejection?]

• Yes
• No

The ZLT11 in the game currently has a very exaggerated wrong turning diameter.It reaches a staggering 50 meters, which causes the ZLT11 to perform very badly in the city map.

And we have ample evidence to prove this wrong.The ZLT11 is the same chassis as the ZBL08 used as an IFV and the VN1 series for foreign trade.

Spoiler

Here’s a 2009 .4 article detailing the development and testing of the 8x8 chassis.It was founded by the Chinese Society for Science and Technology and the China Ordnance Engineering Society, and it contains many test photos, so the data should be considered reliable.

In the section on testing off-road ability, it is clearly indicated that the turning diameter of this chassis is less than 20 meters.And there are photos as evidence.

泰国陆军展示从中国购买的VN-1C轮式步兵战车_哔哩哔哩_bilibili

Also, here is a video of the Thai Army demonstrating the VN1C.There is a fragment of the IFV turning around, and as you can see, it only uses a small diameter.

We have the data, we have the photos, we have the videos, and I think that’s very good evidence.So I posted an issue to report the bug.
Significant error in the turning diameter of the ZLT11 // Gaijin.net // Issues

See how Gaijin responded?

I seem to hear, “Because I’m right, I’m right”, not a bug! How arrogant!
So what’s the problem? Obviously, Gaijin got the model wrong.
The photos of the vehicles and the in-game models could not be directly compared due to the angle of the shots, so we used a significant straight line extension to do so.

The vertical line of the rear of the IFV in the first picture and the vertical line of the front side of the IFV in the second picture are compared with the position of the tires, and we can clearly see that Gaijin has made the tires a little more inward.

In addition, at the front of the IFV, the straight-line extension of the distance between the tires and the chassis should be close to the fifth light grille.In the game, the extension cable is only on the third light grille.
So it’s clear that Gaijin has narrowed the distance between the tires and the chassis.
In general, the tires should be farther outward, and the space for steering should be wider. This is a model error, not “not a bug”.
I will create a new bug report issue, please support me and let Gaijin realize his mistake, thank you.

The model of the ZLT11 is wrong // Gaijin.net // Issues

[AP1028]

We should first write a bug report on the model of ZLT11

[warner7]

Lol, funny response from Gj. Either ways they should fix the turning radius of that thing.

[他妈的打歪了]

Yes, it was a model error, but Gaijin refused to admit it, and in turn denied the significant evidence. I’m about to open another issue.

[他妈的打歪了]

See, this is Gaijin’s reply, rudely closing your issue and refusing to admit the problem. The data, photos, and videos are not considered two sources.Teased me.
It’s still that arrogant logic, because my model must be correct, so your evidence is wrong.

[他妈的打歪了]

And in the genius’s statement, the shooting angle is different, and a straight line is not a straight line.

[AP1028]

@Gunjob Sorry to bother you, but could you please look at these two issue?
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/ZolXSg2YJM0U
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/rEzmdsd07gJq
What kind of additional sources is needed for reporting a issue with the model?
Are photos enough or we need sources like manuals?

[他妈的打歪了]

@Gunjob Yes, please，and my question is:

1. Are article and video two different reliable sources?

2.We all know that it is not appropriate to compare directly with different shooting angles, but is the straight line no longer straight, and the perspective relationship is not valid?

3. From past experience, Gaijin doesn’t like to accept video evidence, but isn’t video more intuitive and reliable in the case of a vehicle turn?Is substance or form important?

4.It’s not easy to find evidence from two sources that prove the wrong turning diameter. He denied the evidence on the grounds that the model was not allowed?!How could the public information have such a detailed size to prove that the model was wrong, do you want players to provide manufacturing drawings?

[Imaflyingturkey]

So same issue as the M1128 turning diameter

[Gunjob]

I can’t see an issue with the video in this instance, we don’t accept videos for turret turn speed etc, basically anything you can speed up to try and cheat a higher speed.

But with a turning circle I cannot see how you could manipulate it to misrepresent it. So yes a video of the vehicle completing the turn would be helpful.

[Gunjob]

@AP1028

What kind of additional sources is needed for reporting a issue with the model?
Are photos enough or we need sources like manuals?

Books with the cover included, or a manual (declassified ofcourse). Also when comparing pictures you need to be really careful to get the ingame example at the same distance and angle.

[AP1028]

Greatly appreciate the response.

[AP1028]

@他妈的打歪了
Try making another issue with more accurate comparison. This should work if the angle are the same when doing the comparison.

[他妈的打歪了]

It’s easy to open your mouth and talk, please look at my fourth question, now there is a problem with the model of ZLT11, which causes it to not be able to complete the turn according to the data. So, if Gaijin never admits that they are wrong, apart from providing the manufacturing blueprint, what public information can prove the model wrong in such detail?

[他妈的打歪了]

Yes, I know that Gaijin generally does not accept speed-related videos,But the apparent difference in the diameter of the turns is a solid piece of evidence, so I have 2 different sources of reliable information, right? If the current model doesn’t reach this angle, it’s clear that there is something wrong with the model, right?
So it’s really a bug, right?

[他妈的打歪了]

Yes, I know that. However, although the PLA already has a new 8x8 chassis this year, the old 8x8 chassis is still in service, and manuals and other materials are absolutely impossible, that is an act of espionage.
I think the marked data, the photo, a complete U-turn video, this is well enough to prove.Why can’t Gaijin admit it’s a bug?And I don’t think I had any problem using straight lines and extensions in my photos.Unless you want to say that perspective is wrong.

[他妈的打歪了]

I sincerely ask Gaijin to revisit this issue, and the information, videos, and backgrounds I provide are very clear and reliable.

[TenPoundsOfSalt]

Rather than put the wheels too close to the body, isn’t it possible that they instead made the chassis too wide ?

On the front facing pictures, the lights seem much narrower on the real picture than the ingame one.

If you have the axle track of the real vehicle, and compare it to that of the ingame one, you could first establish with certainty what is wrong, and make a bug report that would be much harder to shutdown on the ground of “It’s right because I say so.”.

[Gunjob]

Its also too many issues per report. Each issue needs its own report.

The turning circle should be its own report. The physical issues with the model also need breaking into their own reports.

There is nothing to action or forward here, its not a forum. Linking to other issues and asking questions etc isn’t the way to use the CBR.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/vXFdTT4OQtZ1

[MS_Phantasm]

I can understand needing more sources like books or manuals, but the original problem is turn diameter.
It doesn’t matter how fast it does so, the speed at which it turns doesn’t change the angle.

Otherwise as well, if there are multiple issues being reported then it would make sense to report them separately. But they are also relevant to the explanation to the turning diameter.