Why is the M1A2 SEP V2 considered the worst tank among the top three major countries?

[BioBear54321]

i consider it seal clubbing because nothing about the 8.7- br screams “we’re all skilled players” they’re still noobs lil bro

[BioBear54321]

yep, just cause 10.3 might be your highest br doesnt mean it is for anyone else…

[BioBear54321]

i just looked at your stat card and you are PATHETIC, you just play the t29 to kill clueless players, you cannot talk, low tier tanks like the sherman etc you are probably the epitome of seal clubbing i all of my top 5 tanks are 10.3 or 11.7 and my k/ds are better than yours… please stay quiet next time little guy

[CinnamonToePunch]

Great assumption, you are completely wrong.

[CinnamonToePunch]

That was a mantlet shot, much like one that’d kill an abrams too, whats your point?

[CinnamonToePunch]

@Necrons31467

So how would you explain the fact that a Object 292 with 804mm of LoS penetration cannot reliably penetrate the UFP of an M1 Abrams at point blank range?

Not this damn video again. Dude, you arent on level ground and STILL penetrated it sometimes. You fight for the whole “angle” thing in protection analysis then use it to benefit you in a test drive to prove a point.

[_Renzo]

That is why I have more battles played than you in almost every Abrams while also having equal or better K/D in them?

And that is surely “all I do is playing the T29” would not result in it only being my 6th most played tank lmao.

[Ion_Protogen]

8.7 is sufficiently high enough to be facing decent players. Seal clubbing only exists below 3.7.

Personally I wish some better players didn’t only focus on top tier (least balanced part of the game), and they were more spread throughout the BRs.

You could also argue that 10.3-11.3 has more seal clubbing than 6.7 because of the amount of premium players.

Don’t “lil bro” me.

[Just_Baron]

@Pangolin_Fan

Most actually can’t go through the rink since its 77mm of protection.

Well, yeah, but I mean at its tier. You lose a lot with the APDS and its low Post Pen Damage. You’re better off with APHE at that tier.

@Pangolin_Fan

But it’s still funny to think that even an Ariete is safer from rank 1s than the Abrams

That is a bit funny though.

[kitchkitch26]

Making fun of peoples stats literally does nothing, only gets forum posts locked, why act like you can look down on people on a forum page

[Just_Baron]

@Necrons31467

Because the shot will ricochet into the gun barrel and not because it actually penetrates the UFP, it even says so in the tooltip.

Also, you should have ‘‘Consider camera vertical angle’’ turned off by default, that way you don’t have to fiddle around with getting the perfect angle all the time.
That feature is there for a reason.

@Necrons31467

So how would you explain the fact that a Object 292 with 804mm of LoS penetration cannot reliably penetrate the UFP of an M1 Abrams at point blank range?

My first statement was that Protection Analysis is not reliable. A Good Example of this is if you actually look at the Merkava’s protection that’s not in green. Despite saying it cannot be penetrated, even 10.0 rounds can still go through in many spots. You cannot trust the protection analysis to replicate the exact parameters in an actual match. Hell, you saw it yourself with Volumetric freaking out on your Mantlet shots.

Also, I’d like to add that your chart only sometimes works due to a mechanic called “Overmatch”.

@Just_Baron

You’re over relying on Protection Analysis.

This was my main point. My second point was that I do not know which shell and range you used because a Merkava cannot stop even a 10.0 shell, but in your lineup of images, the turret is clearly able to stop it almost anywhere, which isn’t the reality of even 10.0 shells in-game.

Also, I’m glad to see they have fixed the Abrams’ UFP. For a long time, I was cutting straight through it, so it did catch me by surprise seeing it bounce shells. Though APFSDS shouldn’t bounce, it should shatter.

@Necrons31467

I never said anything about the base model M1A1.
I also never said it ‘‘needed’’ DU hulls.

Don’t twist my words.

I said that if DU hull armour were implemented, it’d have to be one of the M1A1 VARIANTS (M1A1 HA, M1A1 HC) as those are historically the 5 vehicles that were outfitted with them.

You’re arguing with Gaijin’s sources on that one, not me. They’re the ones who made the Abrams statement about the V2. I have my own issues with their credibility, but I’ll take what I can get.

@Necrons31467

Watch the video.

And I will admit where I’m wrong. Gaijin fixed the UFP issue it seems. Despite that, it doesn’t change the fact you can cut through its lower hull and turret ring. That’s still more than should be penetrable.

[Necrons31467]

@Just_Baron

My first statement was that Protection Analysis is not reliable.

I agree that it’s not 100% reliable, hence why I also showcased it with a video backing up my findings on the test drive map.

One of the major problems with the Leopard 2 A7V is that it’s glacis plate somehow doesn’t auto-ricochet APFSDS like the M1’s does.
Gaijin should’ve fixed that when the 2A7V was first introduced, it’s stupid that it’s not consistent across nations.

@Just_Baron

My second point was that I do not know which shell and range you used

If I had to take a guess (been a while since I made that), It’d probably be 3BM-60 at 800m.

@Just_Baron

You’re arguing with Gaijin’s sources on that one, not me. They’re the ones who made the Abrams statement about the V2.

Any chance you could find it for me? I don’t recall that claim and I think I’d remember that if I read it.

@Just_Baron

it doesn’t change the fact you can cut through its lower hull and turret ring.

So then why didn’t it cut through the turret ring?
It’s by far not the first time it’s happened. I also sat on extremely low ping, no packet loss, and both vehicles were stationary.

[Just_Baron]

@Necrons31467

None of that changes the fact that my original point still holds, the M1’s UFP is extremely resistant to any and all APFSDS currently in-game.

Well, yeah, I was under the impression that Gaijin hadn’t fixed it yet. It’s so easy to kill Abrams that I just never noticed because I rarely shoot there when the juicy Turret Ring is that big.

@Necrons31467

One of the major problems with the Leopard 2 A7V is that it’s glacis plate somehow doesn’t auto-ricochet APFSDS like the M1’s does.

That’s the Overmatch I’m talking about, which was what happened to the Abrams for a long time and why I assumed you had doctored your images. I had no idea what that setting did and wasn’t aware of you using it. Hell, I still don’t know, but I tried it myself and understand it’s just weird.

@Necrons31467

Gaijin should’ve fixed that when the 2A7V was first introduced, it’s stupid that it’s not consistent across nations.

Isn’t it also supposed to have Thermal Camouflage or something?

@Necrons31467

If I had to take a guess (been a while since I made that), It’d probably be 3BM-60 at 800m.

The setting you use makes it strange. 3BM60 should, on the protection analysis, show the Merkava completely and frontally green aside from non-critical areas. This isn’t the case though when using that setting and often still fails to show up without it.

@Necrons31467

Any chance you could find it for me? I don’t recall that claim and I think I’d remember that if I read it.

They made a big claim with a post about how they wouldn’t add a DU hull to the SEPv2 when it was added cause their sources said that only 5 of the vehicles were prototyped with it.

[Development] Hull Armor of the M1 Abrams - News - War Thunder

I think this was it.

@Necrons31467

So then why didn’t it cut through the turret ring?

The ping likely messes with it. They’re turning their turret when you hit their weak point, so it might think you’re hitting at this weird spot, and it probably causes Volumetric to freak out. It happens a lot when they’re moving the spot you’re trying to hit.

Even if you have low ping like I do, it still happens because they don’t share an identical connection to you. It’s always some difference that the server tries to cope with.

[Necrons31467]

@Just_Baron

That’s the Overmatch I’m talking about

@FurinaBestArchon recently talked about this and what causes it.

@Just_Baron

Isn’t it also supposed to have Thermal Camouflage or something?

I’m not the person to ask on this topic.

@Just_Baron

They made a big claim with a post about how they wouldn’t add a DU hull to the SEPv2 when it was added cause their sources said that only 5 of the vehicles were prototyped with it.

Yeah, they use the source I remember them using, that source clearly states:

‘‘M1A1 Abrams tank with areas indicated (shaded) where Abrams Heavy Armor is installed’’

So like I said: Even if Gaijin knew the protection values of DU hulls, even if they knew whether this concerns modified M1A1’s, HC’s or HA’s, even if they had reference photo’s to create a 3D model, it’d still not be helpful to the existing top-tier M1A2’s.

[Just_Baron]

@Necrons31467

Yeah, they use the source I remember them using, that source clearly states:

‘‘M1A1 Abrams tank with areas indicated (shaded) where Abrams Heavy Armor is installed’’

I see. Everyone keeps saying M1A2 SEPv2, so I figured that was the one they were referring to.

@Necrons31467

So like I said: Even if Gaijin knew the protection values of DU hulls, even if they knew whether this concerns modified M1A1’s, HC’s or HA’s, even if they had reference photo’s to create a 3D model, it’d still not be helpful to the existing top-tier M1A2’s.

Well, it’s about time Gaijin starts balancing top tier some other way then. It’s high time the top tier BR expands to 15.0 or something. We really need decompression around 7.7 to 11.7.

The easiest way to know how bad it’s gotten is when you look at the 2A5 and 2A7 being the same BR when one is objectively better in literally every way. There are many more examples, but it would take ages to list them all.

[Necrons31467]

@Just_Baron

Well, it’s about time Gaijin starts balancing top tier some other way then.

I’ve been here since late 2012, if there’s anything Gaijin will never do it’s balancing high tier.

It’s been broken for as long as I can remember, it’s just a rotating wheel where one of the major countries gets to be on top and dominate the rest, it used to be the T-54, then Leo 1, IT-1, MBT/Kpz-70, M1 Abrams, IPM1, Leo 2A5, 2A6, Strv 122/T-80BVM & Leo 2A7V.

Also remember this qoute from Gaijin:

‘‘We don’t consider BR decompression to be a good thing’’

[Just_Baron]

If enough people push for it, it can happen. We just need a big enough incentive…

[sartt]

how would abrams turret fly, when theres nothing strong enough to detach the turret?

[sartt]

@Just_Baron

s that so? I’ve always been told it was an Abrams thing. Even then, while the Abrams doesn’t have a Spall Liner, it can still receive buffs to balance it out. Spall Liners are useful, but due to Gaijin’s buggy game, they sometimes just don’t work lol. I’ve had my Leopard’s Spall Liners actually double spall and kill all four crew from a side shot lmao

the abrams has a spall liner. why do you keep saying it doent after people already showed you proof that it does? Are you just a habitual liar?

[Just_Baron]

@sartt

the abrams has a spall liner. why do you keep saying it doent after people already showed you proof that it does? Are you just a habitual liar?

It does NOT have a Spall Liner, however, its armor IS designed to reduce spall generated. A Kevlar Spall Liner was suggested but not adopted because it was too heavy to add without violating the contract’s weight limits.

I unfortunately cannot send the Optimetrics PDF because Gaijin doesn’t allow PDF uploads for obvious reasons.