‘‘Objectively’’
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Is that so? I’ve always been told it was an Abrams thing. Even then, while the Abrams doesn’t have a Spall Liner, it can still receive buffs to balance it out. Spall Liners are useful, but due to Gaijin’s buggy game, they sometimes just don’t work lol. I’ve had my Leopard’s Spall Liners actually double spall and kill all four crew from a side shot lmao
Why not? I’ve had my Merkava’s Trophy actually stop a Kh38 in-game surprisingly. It’s also extremely useful to not die to Helicopters.
Proxy Heat + Missile Protection = Lots of Trolled Helicopter players
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Where’s your head at? (Meme template) (youtube.com)
Casually has one of the worst armor profiles and worst mobility (specifically the V2, which this topic is about).
Many main battle tanks in this game are suffering, especially minor nation vehicles. I’ve been fighting for a Merkava buff for quite some time, but I refuse to ignore the Abrams’ current situation. The vehicle is miserable.
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Well I see no problem making it the best. Take the Leo 2 and T80 off the podium for a while and make the Abrams an actual decent toptier choice.
That weakpoint means it’ll never compete with the Leopard, but it can be the more mobile and agressive vehicle if Gaijin lets it.
The V2 violates everything the Abrams does well in-game.
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There are definitely countries who have worse right now (Challenger 2, Ariete, Merkava) but the abrams is definitely the worst of the top 3.
Also, they really need to allow you to remove ARAT.
Agreed. The Leopard and T-80 are just stupid good. Even the T-90M, which is a pretty good MBT, is better than the Abrams most of the time. The Armor effectiveness is just nuts comparatively and its more mobile due to the weight.
(Which is wrong. The T-90M should weight around 53ish tons based on the manual that got leaked)
Agreed.
It should also receive the DU upgrade similarly to the T-80B with Thermals.
They REALLY need to fix the turret neck. Plus it is RIDICULOUS to think the hull armor only got upgraded in 2017…
It’s truly amazing and balanced that 90% of shots disable turret ring and engine at the same time.
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It’s hard to say. The SEPv2 came around during a time when the US wasn’t fighting other MBT. The main priority was trying to increase survivability against insurgent forces which used irregular tactics. It’s entirely possible the V2 didn’t get a hull DU package to cut costs and weight.
Well, thats because the engine deck hump. However, AA guns shouldn’t be KILLING my abrams from the front.
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I agree with this. Something is a bit off with that.
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I’m pretty sure Sweden’s reserve tier can also pen its ring bc they get 100mm pen sabots.
the sherman 75 can pen the abrams turret neck.
With what substance, even with a new abrams the Leopard 2A7V will remain the top dog until we get the next generation of MBTs, it’s practically a better platform with a better armour layout and round. If you want a game where the abrams is dominant go play one of those larping ones on roblox run by other american glazers
While true, the Swedish APDS isn’t all that great compared to other Reserve shells lol
Nowhere near one of the worst. You’ve still got the Leclerc, Type 10, Merkava, Challenger 2, TKX, Leopard 2A6, Ariete, VT4A1 and Challenger 3 sitting comfortably behind the M1.
Overall it’d be somewhere in here:
Best armour < Strv 122A >----------------------< M1A2 >-----------------------------< Ariete > Worst armour
Leopard? Yes.
T-80? No.
That wouldn’t help any of the top-tier Abrams variants.
The M1’s equipped with DU hulls were of the M1A1 variety.
Not that I’m against Gaijin adding one, but there would be questions regarding it’s protection values, weight, 3D model, etc.
Leopard? Yes.
T-80? No.
A competent player in an M1A2 will steal a T-90M’s lunch all day long.
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You’re over relying on Protection Analysis. I’m also not sure which shell you used to get that result because 3BM60 does this to an Abrams…
The Ariete’s armor is slightly better than the Merkava due to its turret being capable of stopping APFSDS more reliably. Either way, they’re both horrible in-game.
I own them both, play them both, and excel in both.
This is what M829A2 does to a T-80BVM. The T-80 has a much better armor layout, is lighter, is faster, and has greater mobility due to it being unaffected by rough terrain unlike NATO MBT. The only thing a T-80BVM doesn’t do better than an Abrams is reload rate.
It objectively would. Even if it doesn’t fix them, it still makes them not entirely green to one of the worst penetrating top tier shells in the game.
Only the turret of the HA and HC received DU. The A2 was prototyped with it in the hull. The A3 received it in the hull, which is partially why it’s so much heavier than the other variants.
You have enough time in this game to know you’re not being truthful. The T-80BVM is still one of the best tanks in this game.
The T-90M is a good vehicle and an Abrams can easily beat it, but that doesn’t mean the Abrams is better than a T-90M which can absorb copious amounts of damage if you don’t aim properly. Compare that to the Abrams which doesn’t stand a chance at stopping even 3BM60 anywhere.
And it’s time for The Chart™ again.
Exactly, the terrible turret armour means that everything will roflpen you if they even land within the same postal code of your gun barrel.
The LFP and driver’s hatch are places that every player has gotten used to aiming for. Playing the T-80BVM you usually get one-tapped because of it’s horrific survivability.
It does not.
The M1’s have far superior mobility thanks to their reverse speeds, neutral steering and ability to reverse turn within a months time frame, unlike Russian MBT’s.
Attempting to reposition with a Russian MBT is just miserable, and leads to you getting out-positions more often than not.
You misunderstand.
It wouldn’t because the documents make it very clear only the M1**A1** variant received very limited DU hulls.
Giving the M1A2, M1A2 SEP or M1A2 SEP v2 a DU hull is just pure fantasy and there are no supporting sources for it, unlike the M1A1.
I’m grinding the T-90M and T-80BVM right now, and it’s the most miserable experience I’ve ever had at top-tier save for the T-72B3.
They are utterly, utterly worthless when stock.
- Can’t even penetrate a M1A1’s mantlet? Check.
- Get one-tapped frontally by a lower BR vehicle with the first shot? Check.
- Can’t even penetrate a damn Abrams turret ring at point blank range? Check.
- Get one-tapped in return? Check.
- Can’t penetrate a lower BR Leopard 2A4M’s mantlet? Check.
- Get one-tapped in return through the turret front? Check.
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(I’m gonna edit this in here to prevent Drama, but basically, the Protection Analysis doesn’t properly show Overmatch and Ricochet’s to the actual game. As an example, the Abrams in the Protection Analysis, and a long time in-game, couldn’t stop shells on the UFP, but now it ricochets even the 292’s APFSDS.)
Even when under the barrel of the Abrams, it’s still green. I don’t care what your Theoretical chart says, it’s not the reality of War Thunder as you’re portraying it here. You did something to make your point look more valid than it is and it’s painfully obvious when you actually look for yourself. I don’t know what shell type or range you used to make the shells look like they can’t go through, but it’s obviously something intentional and likely to intended to deceive. Even the worst top tier shells can easily cut through the Abrams UFP flat on.
I mean seriously, even the worst top tier shell in the game can cut through it at that shitty angle. You did something and won’t disclose it for some reason.
And what does that matter if you’re one of the fastest Main Battle Tanks in-game with one of the best armor profiles in-game? The T-80BVM has significantly higher mobility than an Abrams and better armor. Yes, it has weak points, but do you know how much harder it is to hit a driver’s optic compared to the entire length of an Abrams Turret ring? What’s worse is that the optic on a Russian Tank can at least stop an autocannon.
And I really hate to do this, but you have 21 games in the T-80BVM. How would you even know it dies that easily when you haven’t played it enough to get a feel for it?
Yes, it does. The T-80BVM has a higher power to weight ratio and top speed compared to the Abrams. It’s objectively quicker in everything other than reverse. The T-80BVM has more than enough mobility to reverse. Even if it can’t back up, it can whip around on a dime and get away in a smoke screen. Hell, I main T-72 tanks in the Russian Tree and can still get away with that.
In a T-72, sure, but the T-80BVM has one of the best, if not the best, Power to Weight Ratios of ALL top tier tanks.
The M1A1 doesn’t need DU. It’s the best 11.0 MBT in the game.
No, it’s not. The SEPv2 was prototyped with DU just like the T-80B was trialed with Thermals. Even Gaijin admits this, therefore it would not be unreasonable for a DU plate to be added as a modification to the SEPv2 at the very least.
All Top tier MBT suffer when stock. You don’t have the experience in these vehicles to justify an objective opinion. While I do not yet have the T-80BVM, I do have the T-80U (with the UM2 spaded), T-90M, M1A2, Leopard 2A7V, and Merkava.
The T-80U is already a beast at 11.3 and even the UM2 is a significant force at 11.7. The T-80BVM is just a steroid infused super version of a U and UM2. It’s physically impossible for it to be worse.
Yes, it can. Just because you experienced a bug doesn’t mean it’s the whole truth.
And that’s unique? Do you need to see every single shitty Minor Nation MBT against 9.3 shells? And for what? Because someone pushed a Leopard in a T-90 on an upslope which completely shredded any advantage they had? You can’t exactly show your belly armor to an enemy looking at you and expect to survive.
That’s so unbelievably false. Even an M4 Sherman can cut through that turret ring dude.
Bad Positioning and planning dude.
Why would you ever aim for a Leopard’s turret? Why would every push a Hull-Down Leopard in a Russian Tank on an incline to begin with!? You’re just asking to get eaten alive.
That wasn’t a shot in the cheek, it was the mantlet…
I’m not sure why you’re lying this much. You used a volumetric bug you experienced in a few games as if that’s the whole experience, which isn’t true. You can’t look at a handful of occurrences and base your entire opinion on just that.
I’d rather not be this accusatory, but I’m led to believe you’re intentionally deceiving players who don’t know better.
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