and that is exactly where I would place it
But that is why people complain about it. Its a 11.0 - 11.3 SPAA at 10.7 and yet we cant even get extremely weak 11.7 SPAAs down to 11.3 (not that it would change much for several nations)
Im sure if the ADATS was 10.7 people would complain like mad.
Ah right, I was misunderstood and unclear. I mean why folk are saying it is bad, it is pretty flash, only really becoming difficult in an uptier. The hour is nigh 0300, I am a touch on the tired side.
Ah right yeah.
It is funny when people complain about the best in class vehicle for a given BR
Its a 11.0 - 11.3 SPAA at 10.7
I’d see it at 11.3 if I had my way
CAS players wanting to shoot AGMs from beyond SPAA range. More news at 5
You are aware than at present, the Tunguska sees subsonics that are saddled with incredibly limited ordnance and virtually no counterplay aside from not bothering to try?
It is an incredibly comfortable system at 11.3, and would rarely be outranged by anything it isn’t already (e.g. someone spending 5 minutes to reach altitude to drop bombs from orbit or a PGM). I use the Tunguska, and the most appropriate rating for it is 11.3, likewise for platforms like it (adats etc.). Even in an uptier from that rating, the only notable threat comes from PGMs, which it already faces and can shoot down.
The Tunguska has a theoretical max range of 10km, the AS.30L has a practical range up to 12km, the Tunguska is welcome to watch from the chair. They can even try to intercept my missiles if they get bored, they reach M1.7.
Placing the Tunguska at 11.3 have it meet the Mirage 2000D, a far superior platform to the Jaguar that it can do even less about. The Tornado GR.1 is also 11.3, and it also comfortably strike from outside the Tunguska’s theoretical max range with the PGM. Granted the PGM are easier to intercept.
If the only thing an AA can do about a plane is try to catch it’s munitions, then it’s not capable enough.
11.3 would also put the Tunguska at the same BR as the HQ17 that has 50% more theoretical max range, and is also incapable of dealing with an uncooperative CAS player, and is vastly superior at catching munitions.
Looks at ADATS at 11.7
top tier is horribly compressed and most 11.0+ SPAA shouldnt be facing 12.0 and above CAS.
But 2S6 has more comprable performance to 11.0+ SPAA than it does 10.3/10.7 SPAA. If nothing else. it should be 11.0
AS30L is very straight forward to intercept if loosed outside of your engagement range thanks to speed bleed, which you are rewarded for. This assumes that you are in a position that any of the AS30L carriers can loiter in such a way that they can keep you lased whilst staying outside of your threat range. But this would generally assume you’ve alerted the airborne target with a hard lock on radar. Majority of the time, any target you engage without having alerted it prior is pretty much doomed, or at least thrown off their attack path enough not to destroy what they were aiming to do.
M2kD poses the same threat already posed by the Gr1, which having used the Tunguska against PGM carrying Tornadoes, is not as much of a threat as you pretend. Sure, you can be targeted outside of your range, but PGMs take up valuable pylon space and are incredibly easy to shoot down, which you are again rewarded for.
Which really should be the same BR as the Tunguska, given these both provide effectively the same utility. I feel a lot of this could have been helped if we got longer range AAs sooner and gaijin actually differentiated between point defence platforms and properly longer range options. Most of what we have in game are short range air defense systems, including pantsir.
Man I’m using C/F in my A4E and doing loops barrel-rolls and it still hits me.
No the missiles are not bad or it’s just my luck that when I do defensive maneuvers and deploy C/F it still hits me.
Тунгуска is not bad.
C/F has no bearing on MCLOS or SACLOS guidance. What would is radio jamming as thats the preferred medium for sending commands to the missile.
The Tan-SAM Kai getting mugged for it’s lunch money for the 15th time this week (it’s only tuesday).
The big issue with the ADATS is it’s G2G capability, if not for that it would probaly have gone down already.
That’s my point, take an 11.0 AA like the Tor : it has a theoretical max range of 12km, that’s the practical range of the AS.30L fired from the Jaguar at 10.3.
No AA system has parity with CAS at it’s BR because the majority of players don’t bother to not fly headon at AAs.
I can’t test the Tunguska, but I doubt it has the radar features of the Tor as well, which would strongly indicate that they are really not equivalent.
You outed yourself as having never even looked at the AS.30L, it’s sustainer burns for the entire flight time, coupled with gravity, it accelerates all the way to impact.
ATLIS is a +/-89 pod with target lock. It’s the worse pod to be paired with the AS.30L, at 11.3 you have the far superior CLDP. It’s loitering alright.
The only thing that can threaten an AS.30L carrier is CAP, and since they all carry Magic 1 at worse, they can deal with CAP alright. Beside that supposes that CAP is already on them the moment they spawn.
Metaknowledge, and generally just looking into the spawns will tell me when I face an AA, and even if it escapes detection, I won’t fly in range because as explained, I don’t have to. My entire issue with the AA/CAS dichotomy is that AA players must rely on CAS player being bad, as soon as you don’t play into the AA, you don’t die to the AA.
It’s a far superior airframe, that gives far more energy to it’s weapons, your assertion is really thrown off by your incorrect assumptions about the AS.30L.
Sure the PGM isn’t all that in a vacuum, but as an AA you have far more to threaten you than a CAS plane. If you get killed before you intercept every PGM, you haven’t been of much value to your team, moreso if the mothership is coming for round two and you aren’t back up.
The worst that you as a Tunguska can inflict to the Tornado is shotting down all of it’s munitions, the worst outcome for you is dying and having him freely bomb your team.
If its judged by its G2G ability then it should be lower than things like the Soviet radar guided 10.0 ATGM thingy
oh… right. Im thinking from the perspective of a Jaguar GR1A with 2x Mk13 GBUs but no AGMs.
So. i have no idea on that front, but from my perspective. I rarely can attack a 2S6 outside of its range
French jag cannot engage Tunguska outside of its range really, targeting pod causes issues if you try to keep outside the range, let alone the speed of jag means the AS30L is yet more sluggish to start out. It’s a pretty obvious launch. It lacks the closure rate at those ranges to even vaguely threaten Tunguska.
It is my least familiar French weapon, on account of the sluggish nature of it I tend not to use it in favour of other armament. Having checked, you are correct. The rocket does burn the entire flight time, does not change the fact that it is incredibly sluggish and still easy to down with a Tunguska. I had simply given it the benefit of the doubt that it was faster and bled speed, alas, it is simply slow.
Or y’know, you can just shoot the weapon down. Not an air kill, but still rewarded.
Yeah no, M2kd caps out at the same speeds as tornado. You are giving the same energy to a launch.
I really don’t think you get this at all. Look at the current BR spread. 10.7 tunguska sees PGMs from the Mirage and Tornadoes. Your circumstances don’t change going up in BR, and even entertaining this argument, that was already the case. The only introduced threat is the Gr4 accounting for uptiers and it carries the same ordnance that you’re taking issue with. In exchange for this very minor change in threats that can register in a match, subsonics with only dumb munitions at 9.7 stop getting swatted by a Tunguska.
Following the logic you have laid out, we just shouldn’t have AA at the upper echelons of the game. After all, there’s always a threat to any platform on the ground from both air and ground, so really AA shouldn’t be above 3.7.
You can assume there is no AA, and generally be ineffective because of the range limitations of most platforms at the rating excluding Tornadoes (except that tornadoes also benefit from being within the 10km range to give the slimmest reaction time to loosed munitions). But that opens up a myriad of opportunities to lose ordnance to terrain, AA, etc. as you’re providing far more reaction time to the weapon.
Skill issue on the 2S6 bit, at a similar BR lies the Bucc S2B with a tv guided missile which will easily fulfill your SEAD purposes, and id maybe try playing the Khrizantema before you start making remarks on ADATS in any form being worse than it, it makes you look like a fool.
Well. Again, you cannot fire a Buc S2Bs AJ168 beyond the range of the 2S6. So…
ADATS requires completely exposing yourself to fire at anything. That thing I’ve had just expose the microscopic launcher that is impossible to see, let alone deal with.
They are also incredibly slow, having been on the receiving end of them. Buccaneers are also pretty obvious targets so you know the the thing loosed is a martel and you’ve a short century to either down it or get out of the way. Especially if loosed anywhere near the outer bounds of Tunguska’s engagement envelope.
That hasn’t been the case for the Khriz since last year. Its optics exposure at minimum if you wanna shoot at which point the adats is still better since its not constrained by needing to be under 3kmh to shoot.
EDIT: Also sounds like your using it wrong, just checked the guided weaponry spreadsheet and the maximum track range on a ground target is 12km and a point lock is 34.
I havent definetly been killed by one barely exposing themselves in the past year. So if anything was changed. I havent noticed
Would have to double check, but I think it is. And if give both its sheer size and incredibly slow speed, That doesnt really help much. And if that means it must be a Higher BR than the BMPs that can fire on the move need to all go up.
edit: confirmed. ADATS cannot move on the go (at least the UK one)
Right, and you have no Tpod or thermals. trying to spot someone hiding behind a wall or something is very hard. Also, I doubt the 2S6 would struggle with just shooting them down. They fly really slowly
A lot of people dont have T-pods at that BR morvran and they get by, alot barely have Laser guided ordinance let alone TV guided with at least 12x zoom.
And no one has a 10km+ SPAA at 10.7. They all get by. So I dont see why the 2S6 needs to be 10.7 when its closest equivalents are at 11.7.