It has 70° of azimuth on the side, 10° more than the SU-27SM, so when doing a NOCH the F-4 is closer and easier to the 90 than the SU-27.
The SU-27SM radar has a horrible TWS that can easily make the missile lose its course.
What this means is that in case of an AIM-120 vs R-27ER confrontation, unless the SU-27SM does a “Silent Launch”, the F-4 can know at all times that it has been shot and from where, unless it is 20 or 15km away, it can perfectly wait for the AIM-120 to activate and then evade without problem.
Even more so because both have THE SAME AMOUNT OF COUNTERMEASURES.
The Su-27 would win by a landslide in dogfight, but it still loses at long and MEDIUM DISTANCE, since even the F-4 has a 19KM ACM almost double that of the Su-27, so even when approaching it will be more dangerous for the Su-27, still taking into account that the Aim-9l/i have better resistance to flares at long distances than the R-73, not to mention the R-27ET that deviate only because the target aircraft fired a missile or a rocket.
in F-15C TWS can do the same, so horrible radar?
you can utilize flanker flight perfomance, climb and have better launch stats and speed, so, your missile will be way faster than amraam(btw, in same conditions it still will be faster)
but all of su-27 CMs are large, also matter
use IRST lock and transer it to radar track
any other missile also, why 27ET must be exception?
IRST lock transfer no longer works, at least, not when I tried it last week.
Before anyone says i necro posts, don’t make me link screenshots of mods telling me to use open threads instead of creating new ones.
Its not inferior,
So you’re telling me that a missile known for blatantly missing targets going perfectly straight towards you below 4km and slightly above you and missing other sorts of short range engagements where a r27r (not ER) would not only reach earlier but strike is “not inferior”? I launched over 200 r77s and only seven of them struck, of which only four of them actually killed the targets.
I always do well in it, but it plays differently, the AMRAAM out ranges you, so if you try to play their game you loose, the R77 Pulls very hard so using it at low alts is how I do well in it.
sure it does play differently, it’s supposedly a tail pivoting missile made to 180 onto a target you locked in 1km head on but it just shoots up into the sky, or does the r60 thing of spending all of it’s energy to reach the target and then aggressively nose towards it falling behind and not proxying.
R-77-1 maybe?
If the shitboat that the su30 is can carry ten of them, why not DISCARD the r77 on su27 and put 10 r77-1s too and move it to 14.0?
Theres no bugs, theres nothing wrong with the HMD, and if you want more range, switch to IRST, lock them, ive locked people at 20+KM with it, then switch back to radar
There’s nothing wrong with the HMD, you really implying that EVERY hmd struggling sometimes to lock onto a target is not a problem with HMD?
Thats just not true, the R77 is great, but people try to use it like an AMRAAM, which it isnt, if you climb to high altitude and try to BVR joust with the F15s and F16s that are up there with their AMRAAMS, you will loose, dont go into a situation where you have a disadvantage
Never seen anyone use it like an amraam, in fact the amraam will strike in situations where the r77 should be used and would miss nonetheless. I’ve never launched a missile of the kind of the amraam beyond 20km, hell I don’t even launch an r27er or a phoenix below 20km either. Even going 1500 on the deck with the su27 won’t grant my r77s to reach on time, i’m having the f18 syndrome with one of the fastest top tier aircraft in game, where missile launches are so slow they will eventually get defeated even in launches below 8km.
With this, it’s easy to say that empirically talking the r77 is the absolute worst radar guided missile of 12.0 plus and that the su27sm has zero battle presence with a set of r77s instead of r27er’s. Call me crazy, but i’d take skyflashes over r77s for below 5km radar slinging. And something I found out, despite how hard people are trying to convince me that both aim120 and r77 have the same seeker, aim120s are no longer chaffable while r77s will eat the first two chaff pops.
Well, you are…
Hope you don’t find ANOHTER topic about Su-27SM and necropost it TOO… (just like what you did with F-18C and F-5C.)
If we consider it seems there is no other Su-27SM topic alive. Just stick with this one.
And it will be fine.
if That happens, I think nobody will gonna play Su-27SM, just like F-18C(Sweden) after MLU2 comes out.
Or J-11A after J-11B came out?
Shares the same BR but without upgrades, ends up with flat-out downgrade.
I think Gaijin didn’t want to do that on Su-27SM. :|
Well, you are…
am I saying I am not?
or am I saying that it’s the mods closing my new threads and coercing me into necroing?
Hope you don’t find ANOHTER topic about Su-27SM and necropost it TOO… (just like what you did with F-18C and F-5C.)
I’m not the only one, many people that still fly the f-5c today agree with me except those who only face it or those who make content and want to dramatize over it, while accidentally quoting complaints from 4 years ago stating how op it was and accidentally showing how bad the guns are with contemporary footage.
if That happens, I think nobody will gonna play Su-27SM, just like F-18C(Sweden) after MLU2 comes out.
Or J-11A after J-11B came out?
how is giving the su27sm the very thing it needs going to make people not want to play the su27sm? f-18 didn’t have aim120c, now that it has it it does have the leverage to thrive despite how dogshit the flightmode is for air rb.
Shares the same BR but without upgrades, ends up with flat-out downgrade.
I think Gaijin didn’t want to do that on Su-27SM. :|
How is a straight swap from r77 only to R77-1 only a downgrade? are you struggling to process my words? The SU30SM is a terridogawful flight model, if it can be 14.0 thanks to r77-1 then the su27sm with a better flight model can also be 14.0 with ten r77-1. Anyway, we have micas and 120c’s on flight platforms that vastly surpass the su27 (and thereby clowning the su30sm) at 14.0. So I still fail to see your logic.
Currently, Su-27SM lacks R-77-1, as we all know, and has a BR lower than Su-30SM
along with other minor upgrades.
If Su-27SM gets R-77-1, missiles will get better, but will be the same BR as Su-30SM.
Then I believe Su-27SM will be another J-11A case.
Well… your points are partially right, because only a few guys will play the current Su-27SM even if Gaijin don’t let them permanently grant R-77-1 to make it remain 13.7
I am just disagreeing with you because of personal preference, which I think ‘similar planes with same loadout in same nation’ is lame.
Brit has three phantoms in the same 12.0BR, and all three of them use the same radar and missiles.
Both FG.1 and FGR.2 in tech-tree are nearly identical and need to grind the same stock grind all over again, which is lame and British playerbase is craving for making them different in weapon loadouts.
So, if Su-27SM and Su-30SM share the same identical A2A loadout, I think I will just skip the Su-27SM.
Unless I want to spade the whole nation tech-tree.
What if the gap between [Su-27SM] and [Su-30SM or other 14.0BR jets] was wider?
the su27sm at its current state doesn’t belong to 13.7 either, it’s flight models are far inferior to everything else in the range between 13.3 and 14.0. Just the flight performance alone between the j11b and the su27sm is telling. Same for the j10, or the jf17. The J10 carries six 40g amraams, has the dogfight performance of an Eurofighter and sits at 13,7.
Clearly lacking in performance, but also lacking in armament, the only redeeming missile Russia has is the r27er below the r77-1.
I repeat, if a plane that flies like a 12.0 can sit at 14.0 because of r77-1, why not a plane that flies like a 13.0 at 14.0 with at least 8 r77-1? i mean, russians except the yak41 (and below) are very badly overtiered performance wise, arent’ they?
As for the j11a, it could get pl-12 and the j11b the r77-1 and the pl12.
third match with r27er.
It does not
They can’t because they never carried those missiles
So u wanna put one of the best 13.7s, to curb stomp everything in it’s way at a lower br?
No not really, besides the eurocanard and F2 FM powercreep, it’s flight model is comparable to the F16C, and even better in some aspects.
They’re basically the same, but as far as i know the j11B has less thrust at lower speeds.
No, the eurofighter currently is superior to everything.
So u wanna put one of the best 13.7s, to curb stomp everything in it’s way at a lower br?
How is it gonna “curb stomp”? the r77s are no better than a hypotetical aim7e2 with an ARH seeker and have near zero hit rate “even if the seeker is the same as the aim120” well it is the same but the aim120 doesn’t wobble and the r77 wobbles so much that not even the gimbal can keep up and is more often than not simply losing targets in perfectly fine launches. And even if it got moved to 12.7 with r27er ( it’s flight performance actually belongs to 12.0 at best) it would still be sploinked.
No not really, besides the eurocanard and F2 FM powercreep, it’s flight model is comparable to the F16C, and even better in some aspects.
F-18 outdogfights it, j-10, jf17, mig29, gripens, viggens and the f16c has a tighter turn radius. Just because say one aircraft rates at 34 degrees per second like the su27, if it can’t sustain it and has to W tap constantly and has 660 meters of turn radius while at it and an f-18 with just 25deg/second but sustained and a turn radius of 390m it will win yes or yes.
They’re basically the same, but as far as i know the j11B has less thrust at lower speeds.
True.
But people say “it’s got much more thrust” idk why’d they say that.
No, the eurofighter currently is superior to everything.
The EF is superior, the j10 can keep up for long enough, everything at 13.7-14.0 walks over the su27sm, except the f18 hornet. You can see at the start of the matches who reaches the center of the map earlier.
I see the flanker and raise you the over BR’d, underpowered mig 29.
You are right tho- The R77s are that bad i do better in the 13.0 when its fighting the same jets 99% of the time…
because the J-11B has more static thrust and higher thrust at high speeds
The SU-27 radar is horrible. Locks will take multiple times, and don’t get me started on the ACM mode. You can apply it to a target in front of you and it would take 5 seconds for a lock, by the time you are dead.
Welcome to War Thunder, where radars are affected by ECM when there is not ECM implemented in the game
It’s only that way for Russian radars. Western radars get an quick lock 90% of the times. There’s also common sense ACM block for Western radars that basically instantly locks
Idk guys I find adders to be fine if you use them like dogfight missiles, bring Echo Romeo’s for BVR sometimes, etc. (I’ve spaded the J11A, haven’t touched the 27SM yet, but it is objectively better than the 11A).
I find the radar horrible for these planes, how do you make them work anyway.
Do we play the same game? On a more serious note tho, Russian radars (besides the MIG-29SMT and the Su-30SM’s) suck. Western radars are indedd better, but those too are affected by the same problems you mentioned