Why is HESH still in this horrific state

It’s cool. I know that things get misinterpreted in these disucssions. I also know a missile as large as the Maverick would absoluetly destroy any tank that it hit, but Warthunder doesn’t make as much sense most of the time. I wish it did, because things like Realshatter did nothing but shatter my hopes and dreams, but I digress.

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ERA gives additional protection against CE but is not always capable of stopping CE ammo, depending on angle. For example, 105mm HEATFS against tanks with Blazer ERA can penetrate through the ERA if the angle is perfect. Stronger ammo can go through K-1 ERA at shallow angles too.

The problem with the AGM-65 is just the anemic penetration and disabled overpressure. Both of which were knee-jerk nerfs.

He was talking about the T-90, in which there are 3. I’m going to base this off of the T-90M. It is supposed to have Relickt ERA, which is supposedly twice as effective as Kontakt 5. Kontakt 5 is rated for 600mm of protection from HEAT warheads. So that brings our total ERA protection to 1200mm, which is much more than the 830mm of penetration for the AGM-65D. That means the ERA should always stop a Maverick if the ERA is hit directly regardless of location. Also, if you look in the protection analysis it can stop Mavericks on the turret cheeks without the ERA. I can’t see the T-90M with the ERA package installed and I honestly don’t think I need to. The math is pretty simple.

Please note: This is all Warthunder based, not real life. I don’t care what else does what in real life. The whole reason I said anything was to explain the difference of a Maverick failing to kill a T-90 by hitting the turret ERA and why the S-25O can overpressure in similar situations. All I did was try to explain game mechanics, no more. Not trying to debate anything outside of these mechanics.

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American tanks have rounded turrets with mediocre side armor that makes it easier to lash BESH onto

Honestly, would HESH really be too strong if you pen successfully into the crew compartment with it and overpressure then triggers from the blast force? Say for example you used L7 HESH on a T-54-51 front plate, and because it penetrated the tank, overpressure triggers, and the tank dies (as it rightfully should, given combat reports from Korea of North Korean tankers hit with just 90mm HESH having bleeding ears and thus totally losing combat effectiveness, nevermind 105mm or bigger).

Sure, some things with it like the Vickers MBT and Centurion Mk 10 might go up (again), but I just don’t see how making HESH actually work as intended would truly break anything.

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Go to the 3.40 mark of this video from the Tank Museum and you shall see what 183mm HESH does to a tank. https://fb.watch/q8KxaAI7Nl/

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HESH being useless is so annoying!



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I got a issue in my last game. HESH got a like up last update and the AVRE is more fun to play, but this. If you can see the first video, I take over eastly a M47, but the panther A in the mantlet, did nothing, twice. I thought it was a Skill issue or and Gaijined moment, but no, it’s the Panther A getting a special black hole absorber. Second video you can see Panther G vs Panther A mantlet aren’t the same about ‘taking the shot’

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Nah, 80-90% of my shot are confirm kills or severe damage (second shot sometime need to be like on T34/T26E5 is I see only the turret):




bonus:

And would a 15kg HE shell have been better? 90% of the time i’d say yes. HESH was largely a replacement for standard HE, but in game HE is more effective.

Try using the Chieftan/challenger/challenger 2’s 120mm HESH with its 7kg HESH shot and you start to see all sorts of wonky no-damage shots on light vehicles.

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There’s plenty of times in which the HESH shells and their explosive filler just don’t exist, I think it’s in large part due to “VoLUmEtrIC” and making us all get gaijined because of it. I promise the normal HE shells are much more consistent than HESH is right now.

Well duh doi, if you hit turret fronts and sides then yeah it’s a one hit kill, the AVRE is my best performing vehicle there’s no need to brag. Because it’d be amusing to be half decent at the vehicle and entirely oblivious of the ways HESH doesn’t function right in game.

1/3 shots

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As we can see here, HESH does not in fact penetrate a fixed amount of armour regardless of obliquity. It’s most effective at intermediate obliquity, and less effective at very low and very high obliquity.

90mm HEP HESH effectiveness vs obliquity

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One thing I cannot quite wrap my head around: now that top tier has evolved far beyond where it was when HESH was originally nerfed into the ground (1.71), why can’t that old nerf be reverted already?

Would HESH plus overpressure be too strong if it spalled like it did in 1.69? Given its usually below-average pen and more often than not potato shell velocity compared to most other rounds in the 6.0+ BR range, I just don’t quite see how it would be a problem these days.

The two tanks infamous for spamming HESH, the Centurion Mk.10 and Vickers MBT, are now 8.0 and routinely will face machines with ERA, against which HESH does literally nothing (as it is intended to defend against).

Thus I really don’t see the issue if it could once again become great at blowing up Russian sloped armor.

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I’m calling it now: HESH will be un-nerfed when they introduce a russian tank that fires HESH. :P

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I believe Egypt made a T-55 variant they fitted with an improved engine and an L7 gun, but I may be mis-remembering it. Idk.

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I have started using the FV4005 and I have to admit it is very mediocre. When you see that you are carrying a 75kg HESH you think that it is going to be an instakill against any tank, but soon you realize that everything you can kill with one shot with You can also kill that HESH with one shot with any other cannon that reloads much faster, in short, that HESH does not give you anything except a reload time of 30 seconds.

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The good thing about playing a lot with these types of tanks is that it shows you that there is a blatant RNG in the damage of the bullets. Yesterday playing with the FV4005 I had very absurd shots, shot in the rear of the turret of an IS-2 without hurt it, shoot a panther in front of the hull breaking only the transmission, shoot the side of a tiger 2 killing only the charger and in later games a shot exactly the same as another tiger 2 destroys it completely. In total play with That type of tank depends on whether the game’s programming wants you to kill or not, and many times it doesn’t, and the most painful thing is that it happens with a vehicle that would practically be an instakill to almost any vehicle you encounter.

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Would HESH be overpowered if it “penetrating” triggered overpressure?

The FV4005 is the size of a house and can be frontally .50cal’ed to death, while not having mobility to run, and a painful reload. The Conway is a little better in armor, reload, and shell velocity, but its still not all that mobile and quite glassy. The Centurion AVRE (and eventually Churchill VII AVRE) have terribly low shell velocity, as does the much lower tier Lancia 100/17 truck. All the light tanks with 90-106mm HESH generally have far better bread&butter shell types to use (APHE or HEATFS) while dying with a light sneeze.

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