The UK is the main user/nation dependant on APDS and HESH in the game. They happen to be two of the worst ammo types in the game.
Russia barely uses APDS, and never uses HESH.
I’m sure that’s all just a coincidence though.
It’s the exact same as how an S-25O rocket can overpressure anything in the same postcode, whereas approximately the same amount of TNT in a maverick gets entirely absorbed by the roof ERA and gun-breech of a T-90.
I absolutely despise S-25O rockets.
The OHK radius of those is ridiculous, it exceeds bombs with identical or larger HE filler.
If one of those land within 20-30m of your SPAA you die, and of course they have a targeting computer so it’s impossible not to.
Case in point this S-25O from an SU-25 that I had killed that overpressured my stormer from THIS FAR AWAY.
Very believable.
It says everything that it’s better to use S-25Os with CCIP on the Su-25 (10.0) rather than use the actual guided anti-tank munitions.
HESH needs to be streamlined, much in the way AP uses a formula now. There was a fantastic report on the old forum about how to improve HESH. Based on historical documents. Basically:
I think the main problem is that HESH doesn’t have the SH.
When you hit a tank it just seems to take the amour at the point you hit. The main example of this is hitting the cupola of a tank, rather than squashing over the roof it just takes out the optics
because Gaijin has troubles exchanging basic/foundational systems.
Like the traction model is the same, as it was when ground forces where introduced, and how HE/HESH work, and especially what effects they do.
The pressure wave for example isn’t modelled, but is the most important thing of HE and HESH, so the they tried to introduce stuff like overpressure, but failed, bc it is hard to make a komplex system, as pressure waves are, into a simple one. Similar with implementing the penetration values of APFSDS etc.
Those formulas are approximations, that simply fail, when you look at all the differences you have just within APFSDS-munitions. You would have to look at tests, and do accurate simulations, but this is hard to implement (and takes longer to calculate etc), so they switched the system from a table base to the inaccurate formulas.
I think the main issue, is that the main thing of HE (the pressure wave) doesn’t exist in this game and gets replaced by somthing that can only barely immitate how the pressure wave acts, which especially for HESH makes stuff way worse.
It’s literally just E
I personally have never had an issue with HESH around 7.7-8.7 in the Stridsvagn 103’s smaller 105mm HESH, used to be my main way of dealing with the Obj. 279 at that range, just hit the cupola and over pressure it, but that was quiet a while ago, when I was using it recently, it should have over pressured very easily, but did not. Ballistically, and explosively a great shell, just not well portrayed by gaijin, because realistically, if could cause internal pressure change so rapidly it could cause bleeding from the ears and nose, and for the weaker pain tolerance of people, a possible KO from the shockwave, without even remotely penetrating the armor, as the shockwave and blast waves aren’t modeled in game.
I’ve had HESH rounds ricochet in a match, then in testing have them land at even worse angles. So inconsistent :(
no, it is only shrapnel^^
HESH has never been able to overpressure. HE and HEAT can, along with >120mm APHE, but HESH cannot.
Well, it did something to KO the whole crew.
I think I once had something like a T-44 (I cant recall exactly what it was, wasnt a light tank/IFV but certainly wasnt a heavy tank either) survive a direct hit from the AVRE’s 165mm HESH round. Was barely a scratch.
Yeah, that’s usual, I mean, the penetration max on the Shell L35 105mm is like 137, so I just aim for cupola or optics, usually KO in a shot, but yet again, that was quiet some time ago.
I found a good use for the HESH, these types of bullets cause spalling in the direction of the armor in which they hit, so it is very easy to kill enemies when you shoot them hitting the roof of the tank. For example, with the 90mm HESH I have killed the T-10A that way, hitting them with the HESH on the bulge on the roof of the tower and causing the spalling to go down vertically. The bad thing is that it doesn’t work well with the 165mm HESH Because to make those shots you need either precision (laser rangefinder), or rate of fire to correct in the second shot.
Uhh, that is sort of what ERA is designed for. Chemical rounds. The blast from the ERA exploding negates the blast from the Maverick. Hence why tandem charge ATGMs exist, to negate the ERA while still using HEAT penetrators.
Whenever I fight the Soviets or Germans, I bring HESH as they do well against them. When it comes to American tanks, HEATFS is my only best option for the Type 60 SPRG at 6.7. Think you just gotta use them against the right tanks.
Yes, but they are typically designed to defeat RPGs, not 50kg of explosive…
Like I said - how on earth is the s-25o able to overpressure the same tank with less explosive?
The Maverick is a HEAT penetrator, the S-25O is an HE warhead. ERA was designed especially to defeat HEAT penetrators. RPGs are HEAT Penetrators, same as the Maverick. It isn’t all about explosive mass in the game, the overpressure mechanic in the game relies on penetration and damage of an internal module for the explosive blast wave to enter the vehicle and cause the overpressure. The Maverick being a HEAT penetrator will not go through the ERA, so the blast wave will not enter. The HE shell can fragment in any direction and those fragments may enter an area without the ERA and cause the blast to enter the vehicle.
