Yeah, I’ve gotten a “hit” before from a direct hit from a 165mm HESH round fired from a AVRE. They really really dont like the idea of HE being viable in any form, especially HESH. When I first saw the animation for “HESH” in game, I thought it would be really good/interesting to use, nope…
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Well, I’m telling you, if you find an AVE or similar, show it the front of the tank, because if you’re on its side and it hits a wheel, it’s instakill.
I know it’s a huge ask of Gaijin to actually fix HESH, but I’m not sure if they’re even capable of actually doing it. I mean they’ve got HE rounds that can one shot tanks, but HESH (like the M-51 with 400mm of pen) is at times completely useless.
Maybe they’re just to busy working on the next big game mechanic like when they introduced the use of dozer blades.
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M51 uses HEAT, not HESH. The M51’s round is the same as the AMX30 at 8.0. I’m not sure i’d be complaining about a 6.0 tank with 400 pen.
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The M51 should be at Br 7.3, the only problem is that in the game the damage of all HEAT and HEAT-FS projectiles (including missiles) have a random and absurd damage, you might as well pierce and kill a single crew member, or You kill everyone in a straight line, or absorb the damage in a single module, etc. You could say that there is no doubt that the tanks with HEAT-FS that are in Br somewhat low are there simply because of how poorly modeled the damage is. These types of projectiles, tanks like the ratel 90, tanks with the 106mm recoilless cannon, the M51, the M36 with HEAT-FS and etc., with correct damage from their HEAT-FS could these at least 1 BR above how they are Now, but gaijin wants to continue with this horrendous bullet damage model, and maintain this absurd imbalance.
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Guess who isn’t using HESH.
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Yeah, france is unbelievably handheld. Wish they would stop nerfing HESH because of them.
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The UK is the main user/nation dependant on APDS and HESH in the game. They happen to be two of the worst ammo types in the game.
Russia barely uses APDS, and never uses HESH.
I’m sure that’s all just a coincidence though.
It’s the exact same as how an S-25O rocket can overpressure anything in the same postcode, whereas approximately the same amount of TNT in a maverick gets entirely absorbed by the roof ERA and gun-breech of a T-90.
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I absolutely despise S-25O rockets.
The OHK radius of those is ridiculous, it exceeds bombs with identical or larger HE filler.
If one of those land within 20-30m of your SPAA you die, and of course they have a targeting computer so it’s impossible not to.
Case in point this S-25O from an SU-25 that I had killed that overpressured my stormer from THIS FAR AWAY.
Very believable.
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It says everything that it’s better to use S-25Os with CCIP on the Su-25 (10.0) rather than use the actual guided anti-tank munitions.
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HESH needs to be streamlined, much in the way AP uses a formula now. There was a fantastic report on the old forum about how to improve HESH. Based on historical documents. Basically:
- HESH should penetrate roughly 1.3 times weapon calibre, regardless of calibre. So a 76mm HESH shell should be able to penetrate around 98mm of armour, 105mm HESH around 136mm, 183mm HESH around 237mm, etc.
- HESH should have better angled performance than regular AP and APDS.
- HESH should be more damaging than regular AP and APDS.
- Lastly HESH should still act like HE after all of this.
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I think the main problem is that HESH doesn’t have the SH.
When you hit a tank it just seems to take the amour at the point you hit. The main example of this is hitting the cupola of a tank, rather than squashing over the roof it just takes out the optics
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because Gaijin has troubles exchanging basic/foundational systems.
Like the traction model is the same, as it was when ground forces where introduced, and how HE/HESH work, and especially what effects they do.
The pressure wave for example isn’t modelled, but is the most important thing of HE and HESH, so the they tried to introduce stuff like overpressure, but failed, bc it is hard to make a komplex system, as pressure waves are, into a simple one. Similar with implementing the penetration values of APFSDS etc.
Those formulas are approximations, that simply fail, when you look at all the differences you have just within APFSDS-munitions. You would have to look at tests, and do accurate simulations, but this is hard to implement (and takes longer to calculate etc), so they switched the system from a table base to the inaccurate formulas.
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I think the main issue, is that the main thing of HE (the pressure wave) doesn’t exist in this game and gets replaced by somthing that can only barely immitate how the pressure wave acts, which especially for HESH makes stuff way worse.
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It’s literally just E
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I personally have never had an issue with HESH around 7.7-8.7 in the Stridsvagn 103’s smaller 105mm HESH, used to be my main way of dealing with the Obj. 279 at that range, just hit the cupola and over pressure it, but that was quiet a while ago, when I was using it recently, it should have over pressured very easily, but did not. Ballistically, and explosively a great shell, just not well portrayed by gaijin, because realistically, if could cause internal pressure change so rapidly it could cause bleeding from the ears and nose, and for the weaker pain tolerance of people, a possible KO from the shockwave, without even remotely penetrating the armor, as the shockwave and blast waves aren’t modeled in game.
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I’ve had HESH rounds ricochet in a match, then in testing have them land at even worse angles. So inconsistent :(
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no, it is only shrapnel^^
HESH has never been able to overpressure. HE and HEAT can, along with >120mm APHE, but HESH cannot.
Well, it did something to KO the whole crew.