I’m having trouble understanding this line. I just cannot get it. It’s so hilarious. There is a fighter at 5.0 with no air spawn, limited climb rate, and will probably lose a dogfight versus Tu-2S. And it is definitely NOT F8F-1.
Fw190D-9 is far worse than F8F-1. Its climb rate is far worse, its maneuverability is far worse, and its overheat problem is more serious. In the meantime, Fw190D-9 isn’t really much better than F8F-1 in BnZ. Fw190D-9 has better firepower, but its rounds are self-destruct, and Browning M2 isn’t really that bad. Basically you an say that Fw190D-9 is literally worse or far worse that F8F-1 in every aspect, except that its pilots are less likely to be braindead.
I must be honest, I did not enjoy the game while flying F8F-1. However, the problem is not the plane itself. Had F8F-1 been in USSR or Germany, it would be a 5.3 fighter now. It loses energy rather fast, but the same problem didn’t stop Ki-44-II from being biased. It’s firepower is limited, but these rounds don’t self explode at least. The performance isn’t really satisfying in BnZ, but I’m pretty sure it’s much easier to kill enemies in an F8F-1 rather than in Mig-15. The real problem with F8F-1 is that every single damn time I have to fight 4 or even 5 Bf109s at above 5km altitude alone, because my USA teammates never learn about how to fight in ARB, and all they know is engage Yak-3, Spitfire and A6M in dogfight at low altitude. Because USA players never use hit&run tactic or climb. This has been the fact ever since I started playing ARB. BUT THIS SHOULD NOT BECOME THE REASON WE MOVE A PLANE DOWNTIER. Why would Gaijin think it’s “balanced” to move a plane uptier or downtier just because the players lack any necessary knowledge about the game? And adjusting the BR won’t really change anything, will they? As long as Wyvern S4 crash into the ground all the time, and as long as USA players know nothing about energy, BnZ or the least of realistic control, the K/D of these aircraft will always look as bad.
The biggest problem was when WT decided to replace the high-rate M3 .50s with the old low-rate M2s.
I’m a little lost reading this… I can see you’re upset that the F8F is going down, but I for some reason can’t find what you say instead of moving it down. I know you’re probably angry about this, but please can you please tell me?
Isn’t the F8F-1 (and most US naval fighters) better at altitudes below 5km? If I’m remembering that correctly, it means that one of the US fighters that has a usable climb rate isn’t actually good at high altitude fighting (meanwhile the P-47 takes the whole match to reach altitude).
My hypothesis:
- It requires MEC to avoid overheating. If you know minimal MEC, it’s stupid fast and never overheats. If you use AEC, it overheats from 100% throttle.
- It has 3 x 1000 lbs bombs. This means players see the massive bomb payload, the ludicrous speed at 5.0 (600 km/h on deck!) and basically use it as a discount Wyvern. Meaning, strap it full of bombs, mow the lawn, drop bomb and die then go next.
- America has big famous modern jets. People repeatedly go “prop tier boring”, so they bomb bases with it (see point 2) to get fast RP towards modern jets.
- America seems the worst when it comes to CAS at mid-late WW2 ground RB. Worst as in, you kill a sherman and a corsair/f8f drops a 1 ton bomb on your head within a minute. Whenever I play my 6.0 tiger, the skies are full of corsairs, jugs and bearcats. F8F has 3x1000 Lbs bombs, so people who don’t care about ARB fly it to spade it and ruin its match perfomance and thus make it seem underperforming.
And then Morvan mentioned most new players go USSR/USA, so that ruins its performance further.
Then add the points you made (but those affect all U:S planes universally. The massive bomb load at low BR combined with ludicrous speed makes the F8F very attractive for bombing.)
Seriously, when I was trying to play prop tier america in ARB, my entire team was constantly carrying bombs and lawnmowing to bases/ground targets.
I half-wonder if limiting fighters from taking ground-strike payloads in the first 5-10 minutes of the match would make U.S win rates improve and thus, F8F would stop being the “worst performing 5.0 plane.” It would also make playing U.S ARB props more enjoyable.
It had M2’s as equipped AFAIK, and some may possibly have had M3’s back fitted later in their lives according to some old threads in the previous forum.
So M3-equipped F8F’s should be an entirely different plane if ever included - F8F-1(Late) or something like that.
It is not really a problem at all.
And I hope that wasn’t supposed to be a description of the 190D-9.
I hope so too, since in my experience it is decent.
Yeah I’m feeling upset. F8F-1 should not be moved to 4.7, that’s all.
Every time there are 4 XP-50s in the match, 3 of them will chase bombers and get themselves killed. That seems to be some kind of physic law.
Well, it is.
Still, I have had a lot of fun in German fighters… After all, climb rate doesn’t matter as long as your opponents don’t climb at all.
Whilst i share your general view on things - imho gaijin is not really innocent regarding the low performance of US pilots and US aircraft.
Why?
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Because gaijin is unable or unwilling to put efforts in actual useful tutorials attached to the UI of the hangar screen. In total opposition to most USSR aircraft: Playing US aircraft requires some knowhow to make them work.
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So whilst USSR planes fight mostly at their sweet spot (= 4 km alt and lower) it needs way more efforts to make an US aircraft work.
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As a result we have very capable planes (if used correct) at way too low BRs.
Regarding the F8F:
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If you look up the intended role of the plane (=fleet defender optimized to intercept swarms of kamikaze planes even from small escorts carriers) and the resulting design choices, the power drop at higher alt made sense as fights in the Pacific took place at 4 km and lower. That the plane sucks vs European aircraft at higher alt is the logical consequence.
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That gaijin argues with worst performing 5.0 plane looks comprehensible - but arguing with “low burst mass” is actually a joke if the plane is fast enough to pick it’s fights at will.
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If you look at the burst mass of a 3.7 C 205 (2 x 12.7 mm and 2 x 7.7 mm) and compare it with a I-185 (3 x 20mm with 560 rounds!!!) you might get the point that US/USSR players need this handholding by gaijin and gaijin tries to tell fairy tales and puts BRs as they like it.
because people dont know how to use the f8f-1 and because of that they were led to believe that it is not good where it was
For what date and where is that sourced from?
The M3 was not made standard until April 1945 (see M3 .50 Caliber Machine Gun), and the first contracts for the F8F-1 were October 1944, deliveries in Feb 1945, and first operational May 1945 - so the first ones didn’t have M3’s.
Also, apparently AN 01-85FD-2 Erection and Maintenance Handbook for the F8, dated 1 March 1948, only mentions M2’s on pages 313 - 315 when talking about wing guns. I don’t have a copy of it but it is quoted here - Any proof F8F Bearcat used M3 Brownings? | Aircraft of World War II - WW2Aircraft.net Forums.
What is the logic in putting the same armament as an early Wildcat in a late-war fighter?
AFAIK it was solely due to the small size of the a/c - it was the smallest airframe that could fit the very powerful R2800 engine, and was also intended to be able to be operated from small escort carriers.
Hellcats were too large for escort carriers, so they could only operate Wildcats - which is why Wildcats continued to be developed through the war.
Probably they were more interested in the fighter-bomber ability.
And the change to 20mm Hispanos must have been planned, or otherwise they wouldn’t be simply able to change from .50cals to 20mm cannons.
The .50cals were probably merely a substitution until reliable 20mm cannons were available.
I’ve just flown F8F-1 after the update for a couple of matches. Got some teammates flying F8F-1 with average skills, guess they noticed the BR change as well. I’m so certain that this thing is absolutely broken in any proper hand now. I don’t even feel like complaining about it being broken, because I’m so convinced that gaijin will definitely move this thing uptier. It’s so busted.
I’m now pretty sure that, had USA players been at average in their skills, this beast should be 5.3 rather than 5.0.
Just flown F8F-1 for a couple of matches. A lot of experienced players have come to play this fighter and it’s too devastating now. Especially when attacking La-7s and Wyvern S4s. They don’t stand a chance. I really could not imagine that one day I may call Wyvern S4 a sitting duck. But F8F-1 is just way better in speed now.