if you didn’t notice something and move out and allow yourself to be shot you didn’t make a mistake
Uhhhhhhh
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And just like Necrons. “it isnt that because nuh-uh”.
Because I know its true? If i had info like this from tankers in Germany or Russia, I’d say the same thing.
Once again, I like the US. Doesn’t make my point any less valid. I just like shermans and abrams.
This means nothing honestly, You don’t see my main counter to what you say being "You’re just a chinese spy trying to undermine the US’ strength. You’re incredibly biased, and you’ve made that very clear. Like I said, the US is no unstoppable war machine, I just see a tank that I like in a game not being modeled accurately, and I point it out. You choose to bring nationalism, propaganda, and attack my character essentially saying im an idiot who thinks my country is unstoppable. Please, its a tired trope. come with facts and reasoning.
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Granted, this is a slightly elevated shot but you can even 1 shot a leo 2a7 with it, with some good shot placement. This doesn’t constitute a skill issue on your part to get hit like this either, if you are being engaged by a target you dont see.
- Cherrypicked and extremely unlikely and worse than if you were engaging with a normal MBT or an IFV with ATGMs
- Situational awareness is one of, if not the most important skill in the game. Lacking situational awareness is indeed a skill issue.
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The part that you’re replying to was me stating that I personally have never seen a single person claiming the Abrams has an “integrated spall liner” that wasn’t doing 1 of 2 things. An absolutely true statement. It’s literally my experience. What did you hope to accomplish with this statement?
Doesn’t seem like you “know” it’s true, considering you haven’t posted a single thing to back it up. At all. Not even an image. A document is a lot harder to get than an image. I personally have tons of images of the Abrams inside and out.
…And you play literally nothing else. Sounds pretty biased to me.
How am I biased? I’m LITERALLY arguing that your entire argument is based around favoritism to America, and that is TRUE. It is TRUE. Because EVERY tank at top tier has PLENTY of issues and things missing. It’s completely a facet of the game rather than anything regarding the Abrams specifically, yet you want FAVORITISM for America.
YOUR VERY THREAD IS TITLED " Why does it seem the M1 abrams is extremely underwhelming?"
“WHY DOES IT SEEM THAT THE M1 ABRAMS IS EXTREMELY UNDERWHELMING?”
LITERALLY ONE OF THE BEST TANKS AT TOP TIER.
Should people playing the Ariete, VT-4A1, Merkava, LeClerc, Challenger 2 just keel over and DIE?
The Abrams, by all means - is basically the 2nd best tank in the game, tied with the BVM. Only superseded by the spall lined Leopard 2s (2A7, Strv122), which are basically the same vehicle. You have the best firepower at top tier, with a 5 second reload and the 2nd best shell while those other schmucks are stuck with ~50mm less penetration and a longer reload.
You have some of the best, if not the best gun handling at top tier. You have some of the best frontal turret armor. You have the best ammo configuration (turret rack blowout panel), yet you’re complaining about relatively minor issues or even basically making up things regarding the invisible internal spall liners and DU hull armor upgrades. Literal lies, or at least deception.
Why? BECAUSE YOU ONLY PLAY AMERICA.
You have like ~6 top tier Abrams tanks as your lineup while Russia gets the BVM and T-90M as their only true top tier tanks, yet I’ve seen countless complains about Russians getting “huge lineups”.
Your entire basis for this thread, and our entire argument - is your massive favoritism towards the US, and your extremely narrow experience consisting entirely of… playing the M1A1 and IPM1.
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Nobody is guaranteed to see every target lmao. Not even you, Mr. godly vision. I know for a fact you’ve been frontally killed by an enemy you didn’t notice.
Extremely unlikely is a stretch. I’ve been engaged from an angle similar to this. The only way I killed the 2S38 was hitting the ammo link in the turret. It’s a very possible shot.
Nobody is guaranteed to see every target lmao. Not even you, Mr. godly vision. I know for a fact you’ve been frontally killed by an enemy you didn’t notice.
Never said I had god vision, never said I haven’t died to unaware enemies. My fault when I died in these situations as I made a mistake. What is your argument again here?
Extremely unlikely is a stretch. I’ve been engaged from an angle similar to this. The only way I killed the 2S38 was hitting the ammo link in the turret. It’s a very possible shot.
Yes it is an extremely unlikely shot that simply requires you to be above a leopard 2A7 in a 2S38 whilst also being on a reverse slope that is higher than the 2A7 and that allows you depress your gun far enough that you can fire at the 2A7 that is somehow not aware of you and hit this specific location.
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Use the binoculars. it’s free.
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Its not biased. I know the tank isn’t unstoppable, and I never said it was. The thing is, the armor is half modeled and theres a 50mm weak spot where it should be 250. That would still allow any russian APFSDS through, because they all have 250mm of pen lmao.
The only tech tree abrams I don’t have are the M1A1 HC and the M1A2 SEPv2.
M1A2, Sep, and Sepv2.
Spall liners was a stretch, i’ll admit that. But, the source clearly states that the DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY provided armor upgrades to the frontal arc of the Abrams. You and necrons tunnel visioned on the turret. The only bias there is the one you’re experiencing, my friend.
Also, like I said. Spall liners wouldn’t have a massive effect because the spots they’d be placed on, wouldnt even be shot at.
Probably because lineups don’t consist of just MBT’s. Pantsir? Tunguska? BMP-2M? 2S38?
The frontal turret neck is an extreme weak spot, and literal AA guns can penetrate the front of an abrams without much difficulty. How’s that a minor issue? DU makes up part of the weight increase of armor upgrades. However, only half the upgrade is modeled. Hows that a minor issue?
Everybody makes mistakes. Does that make you a shit player because you didn’t notice some enemy? No. So lets not act like not noticing this one 2s38 (which can be hull down with a very small turret) makes you a shit player for not noticing it, and like it’ll never hit a shot on you.
Or just not right up the tank’s ass? You realize distance exists?
Clever, you’ve also died to enemies you haven’t seen.
Thank you for only quoting the few things I said that you can peck at, without acknowledging about ~half of my entire post. Such as how your entire thread and arguments are based around favoritism towards the US?
How your tank is the literal 2nd best?
How you basically don’t acknowledge that it’s not an Abrams issue because of your favoritism.
How almost every other top tier tank is basically worthless in comparison.
You do realize you skipped half of my post, and you think I’m not gonna notice?
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and? that is a skill issue, a massive one if the enemy was in front of me
there are multiple factors like sound and experience and map knowledge and your EYES that contribute to you being aware or seeing the enemy
I can’t see what angle you’re going for with this nothingburger argument
Everybody makes mistakes.
Except for me because I’m just that good.
Does that make you a shit player because you didn’t notice some enemy?
No but it does mean you suffered from a skill issue.
So lets not act like not noticing this one 2s38 (which can be hull down with a very small turret) makes you a shit player for not noticing it, and like it’ll never hit a shot on you.
Your argument is based around “Yeah well if you are unaware of this enemy in this specific hypothetical he can kill you”. News flash: Any enemy that you are unaware of after putting yourself in a vulnerable position is likely to kill you. Even more so if it is something that isn’t a 2S38 since it has more depression to work more ridges and locations and likely has a more powerful gun more likely to remove your ability to return fire. Or if it is another IFV it likely has turret down ATGM capability which would make it even less likely to be able to return fire on and be significantly easier to penetrate you anywhere with.
This is such a non-argument line of reasoning that I feel stupid even responding to it.
Or just not right up the tank’s ass? You realize distance exists?
Right so your new situation is a 2S38 taking out a leopard 2A7 who has just moved out of cover through one particular weakspot that involves the 2S38 being on higher ground with enough depression whilst also being concealed enough to not be seen by the leopards high res thermals and he is also hitting this spot from distance before the leopard can take actions?
Yes this definitely isn’t becoming increasingly unlikely by every change you make to this hypothetical.
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It’s easily the most underwhelming of the big 3 for a few reasons I’ve thoroughly argued here. I would not take a BVM over any of the M1A2s.
It is not favoritism to mention the 50mm frontal armor that anything with a bit of determination can easily penetrate. It is not favoritism to mention that the front armor can be easily penetrated, save for the turret cheeks. The Ariete, Leclerc, and Challenger 2 certainly may have worse turret armor, however, the abrams’ hull is just as bad when facing top tier rounds, save for a few angles that can ricochet.
50mm to 250mm is not favoritism. Tank shells will still penetrate. The Department of energy providing frontal armor upgrades is proof that the tank’s front is armored by DU. Like I said, the turret ring would still be a weakspot. I don’t mind that, however, because it would have its adequate protection and literal T-34s wouldnt have an unrealistically easy kill.
It’s happened before, dawg.
I’ll say this is true, though.
It’s happened before, dawg.
And? Someone has to win the lottery despite how extraordinarily low they are. Does not stop the odds of it occurring from being extremely unlikely.
As I’ve said I’d take the vilkas every time over the 2S38. The gun is great for killing light vehicles and MBTs from the side. It has good depression and soon to be even better. A true unmanned turret where once gaijin fix the ammo bug will be unkillable hulldown except for well played HE. Has spikes which are admittedly hit or miss but can sometimes do well. Second gen gunner and third gen commanders thermals, great mobility, excellent survivability for an IFV.
And more so it is fun to play.
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Did you actually just imply that the Ariete, Challenger 2 and LeClerc have similar hull armor to the Abrams? With the Abrams’s 400mm LFP, and a large auto ricochet zone that will block even the Object 292’s 152mm APFSDS (the strongest shell in the game)?
You’re comparing that to the Ariete’s… nothing, the LeClerc’s tiny strip of 500mm which won’t block any top tier shell (and then a huge LFP that’s like 50mm, and an UFP that’s only 200mm), and the Challenger 2’s massive LFP that’s only 70mm, and its UFP that can also get penetrated by any top tier shell?
All those tanks… That also have far worse armor in general, worse shells, worse/similar reloads and are a worse platform in general in every way?
Not to mention that the Challenger 2 and Ariete have HULL AMMO. And not a turret rack with a blowout panel. Where they’ll get one-shot, while the Abrams has basically nothing under the turret.
What the…?
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can I also penetrate if I use the power of friendship? or is determination necessary?
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It’s particularly funny when objectively inferior vehicles have better WR%. But these guys will swear it’s not a player skill problem and will resort to baseless conspiracy theories to cope.
I can’t wait for Gaijin to put an Abrams in any other tech tree and see the mental breakdown it will cause on US mains.
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They had t62 in mind when designing Abrams. Hence 350 mm protection and ufp with 280mm los thickness