Obviously you’re just ragebaiting yourself by playing and buying these kits since you DO hate NATO vehicles as the narrative demands it.
Just like how I’ve been called the Russian Defender because I call the 2S38 easy to kill and fine at 10.0.
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Some nice painting.
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I won’t call you a russian defender but i will say that just because something is easy to kill doesn’t mean it doesn’t deserve an uptier, for example the M18 TD going up multiple times in BR, and at no BR was that thing a difficult target to kill.
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Lets not put words in my mouth. I simply said there was an armor upgrade that the game doesn’t account for and that the weak spot present on the tank is far weaker than it truly is. In game it’s 50mm when in reality its 250, not a big difference because high caliber APFSDS will still pen, but it allows ww2 guns, IFV cannons and the like to penetrate extremely easy, including your T-72 and T-55 that you say all m1 variants were made to counter solely.
I don’t think the tank has a kevlar spall liner, as I’ve heard many times that it doesn’t have one. That said, there are spall protection measures that War Thunder gameplay doesn’t account for, which I think is pretty unfair, but its definitely a compound issue that cant be easily fixed. Also, it’d be pretty pointless to throw around spall liners in the Abrams in war thunder because all of the spots where spall liners are installed (on most tanks that have them) aren’t even shot at in game.
In conclusion, I know the Abrams isn’t some invincible unstoppable killing machine. Its a tank like all other tanks in game. I just think there are some things that are incorrectly modeled.
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Why would it deserve an uptier when it is an exceptionally average vehicle for the BR that is easily killed and difficult to use effectively on most maps?
The 2S38 is fine where it is. Low depression, poor survivability, mid speed. Soon to be even worse survivability. It’s such an average vehicle for the BR that I feel like I’m playing a different game than everyone crying about it. Can’t remember the last time I ever died to one but kill them constantly.
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Im indifferent to the 2S38 getting uptiered. At the end of the day, I don’t think its gamebreaking but its definitely stronger than most other IFVs. Exceptionally average is a stretch, imo. The thing has a better autocannon than other IFVs. Survivability is definitely not there, depression is the same as most USSR vehicles, and speed is eh in top tier. It can frontally kill MBTs pretty reliably, which I do think stands for something. Its essentially an IFV with a gun so strong it doesnt even need ATGMs.
So it’s better than the other IFVs, but so much so it deserves and uptier? eh, im not sure. However, I wouldn’t cry if it went to 10.3 or 10.7, as its not like it would struggle there anyway.
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If you die to a 2S38 in an MBT from the front you have a serious skill issue and have made several mistakes already and fully deserve to die.
I would argue that the vilkas is a considerably better IFV at 10.3 (if gaijin would get around to fixing the recent bug where your ammo in the unmanned turret will kill you depending on turret rotation). 2S38 should not be the same BR as it. I would take the vilkas over the 2S38 everyday, even more so if it is getting the 20 degree buff on the dev server.
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False. It’s not guaranteed that you’ll see everything that sees you from the front. A 2S38 can penetrate plenty of MBTs frontally.
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Granted, this is a slightly elevated shot but you can even 1 shot a leo 2a7 with it, with some good shot placement. This doesn’t constitute a skill issue on your part to get hit like this either, if you are being engaged by a target you dont see.
The CV90s with their weaker shell can penetrate basically all of the same spots as the 2S38 (while firing 3 times faster).
Yet the Lvkv9040C is far more survivable (and I mean far, undescribeably so, it’s one of the most survivable vehicles in the entire game, while the 2S38 is one of the least survivable.) and has a radar for spotting aircraft, with better gun depression.
While the BILL has the same gun as the 9040s, yet also has the best 10.0 ATGM in the entire game - the un-nerfed top down BILL with 500mm of pen while the TOW-2B still only has 100mm of pen.
All at the same BR. Additionally, TOW-2Bs aren’t that bad, either. And the Italian 10.0 IFVs both have them, and are better than the 2S38 in many respects with their low profile, high speed, good gun handling. I have few issues using 30mm APFSDS on IFVs at top tier.
So - the 2S38’s gun argument never really held any weight because there’s other 10.0 IFVs that have advantages over it regardless.
exactly why im not exactly crying about it staying or going up
Yes, well - a lot of people are.
And you yourself seemed completely fine with it going up to 10.3 or 10.7 - even though that would be unfair.
And you also implied that it’s stronger than most other IFVs and that calling it “average” is a stretch, despite it being average. It also has some of the worst stats compared to other IFVs at the same BR, so saying it wouldn’t struggle seems odd. It already doesn’t do well at 10.0. And that’s not because it’s premium - the premium Leopard 2A4 even has better stats than the regular 2A4 in the same tree. (And it’s the most played premium).
So you basically dug yourself in with these comments. And I don’t think you’ll be taking them back, considering your personality thus far.
I didn’t dig in shit. I don’t give sympathy to the 2S38 because by no means is it struggling or bad. However, I do think its performance and ability is overstated.
Yeah - okay. And you said that’s it’s better than other 10.0 IFVs twice, said that it’s better than average, and that it wouldn’t struggle at 10.3/10.7 so you wouldn’t “cry”.
And when I said that you won’t be taking back those comments, you replied… without taking them back.
I mean, this isn’t even related to the 2S38, I’m just picking up on what you said to Casino, and clearly taking note of your toxic stance to argumentation.
The 2S38 is average and should be 10.0. Not like it going down would change much since their main lineup is at 10.0. You simply don’t want to take back your comment saying that it’s better than other 10.0 IFVs, despite that being wrong. Because it’s still your belief, and you don’t care that it’s wrong.
Eh, I think the 2S38 is ok, but I would prefer a higher rate of fire, more pen and some f&f missiles.
Sure. At 11.0. Although I don’t think Russians have any FnF missiles. Your best bet is that one upgrade that adds the BMP-2M ATGMs on the side. That would make a fine tech tree 10.7.
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The other IFVs you mentioned could also go up with it. I wouldnt disagree with them both going up, Whats your point?
You breathe toxicity. All you do is attack character in all honesty. Lets take a look through what you said, shall we?
Sounds toxic to me bro.
Pretty toxic way to say you disagree with someone’s source. You could have said the source wasn’t reputable but you decided to attack this person and say their research is worthless and doesnt prove anything.
Do i even need to say anything?
You paint this caricature of me saying that Im some kind of sheep believing propaganda thinking the Abrams is some impenetrable fortress. When in actuality, I said there was, at the very least, an upgrade that War thunder did not model. So, instead of bringing evidence that the armor upgrade did not exist, essentially, you called me a dumb nationalist american who thinks my country’s tanks are unbeatable. Sounds very toxic to me, brother. Sounds very toxic to me.
The tow2b needs to be fixed, it’s BS if Swe gets to keep theirs.
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Not toxic. It’s objectively true.
I LITERALLY didn’t attack the person. I said the source is worthless and then quoted the source. I don’t know what to tell you.
You don’t. Because that’s another objectively true statement.
Why are you trying to argue something that would bring clear favoritism to America, considering it would undermine how every other tank in the game is modeled, for no other reason than it being American? Since there’s no other reason that could be.
Additionally, I looked at your player card and THE ONLY NATION YOU PLAY IS AMERICA. Literally the only one. I literally don’t know what to tell you. Please try looking inwards.
I myself have played America as my first nation, got to the Abrams and IPM1 when they were top tier. I played Germany, got to the Maus. I’m playing some Britain, France, Italy. China is my favorite, but I’ve tried almost everything.
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The Swedish Strv 122B+ also has a 100mm+ thicker UFP compared to the Leopard 2A7 just because its 100mm of composite screen is modeled as 200mm KE for no real reason. Even though its the same armor IRL.
It’s just a quirk of the game, I suppose.
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