You forgot to mention that while the Kugelblitz’s AP belt is only 1/3rd HVAP, the Praga’s is all 100% HVAP.
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If you’re having issues with these SPAA its likely that you are under estimating them as opposed them over performing
what nation is the M53/59 in?
thats your answer
Armor. Also M53 is undertiered anyways
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No? have you even read the topic?
Yes but my reply didn’t communicate what I meant at all.
The following are the hoops I jumped through to reach the questionable answer. The idea is that the two vehicles are essentially harmless in the anti tank role compared to the actual tanks at their respective BRs.
Compare the Kubelblitz to the Panther II and Tiger 10.5cm all at 7.0. Before you tell me that this isn’t a reasonable comparison, remember that your original post is describing these vehicles in terms of mobility and armour penetration. Additionally neither Praga or the Kubelblitz have the mobility of say a Falcon or a Gepard (which make them effect light tanks).
The idea I failed to communicate in my reply is that the capability of the tanks mentioned in the topic is less to do with the vehicles performance and more to due with the creativity and opportunisticness of the drivers. Most of the anti aircraft vehicles are able to perform in an unorthodox anti tank meta, however the battle rating system that underpins war thunder is wholly unable to account for this playstyle.
Essentially, the BRs of SPAAs don’t really matter as if you are getting killed by them its more to do with mistakes made by the victim rather than any advantage offered by the SPAA
It’s a remnant of a double nerf that gaijin never changed back. It used to have 95mm pen on the hvap which was more than enough to deal with a lot of threats at it’s br even frontally (especially the 5.7 things it could face), They moved it up in br and then a bit later changed the pen on the shells.
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The Kugelblitz has been simply forgotten about. It’s been the subject of many repeated nerfs over the years, all of which were arguably unjustified.
A 16-fold postpen nerf to the HVAP back in 2016. Nerfing the HVAP belt from full HVAP to 1/3 HVAP. Nerfing the HVAP pen from 95mm to 77mm. All APDS and APCR shattering if against even slightly angled armor.
The only things that were ever “overpowered” about it were not issues specific to the Kugel - SPAAG in general being able to exploit gaps enemy tank armor and pen stuff they shouldn’t be able to. I fondly remember a Kugelblitz penning the turret front of my T32E1 at close range when I know damn well it shouldn’t have been able to, probably slipping a few rounds through a machine gun port. The other one is the general concept of barrel damage, which enables weak guns to cripple the ability of something they cannot frontally pen from being able to shoot.
Kugelblitz is one of the most dangerous SPAA that most players underestimate. It should go back to 7.0 after Gaijin nerfed the CAS. It has the best armor before we got Kolian. HVAP nerf doesn’t matter. But its turret Rotation Speed got a crazy buff, and additional armor inside makes it become the hardest SPAA to kill, it should be back to 7.0 unless Gaijin remake its ammo position and size, 1200 rounds 30mm just in a small box is also crazy enough
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I’d argue they were fully justified. Kugel is practically invincible if the Kugel player doesn’t just sit exactly where they spawned.
My father served in Vietnam His rig was a Duster. It was explained to me that being anti-air was kind of secondary. Convoy escort, seek & destroy and anything else they were needed for was more needed. But situation change, usage differs ect ect. Just my input.
No, it very much is not. Never was, either. Any tank can have its way with the poor thing. Hell, even the Chi-Ri’s pathetic secondary can do so and cripple the turret. Maybe against a plane it is hard to kill, but it’s anything but invincible.
Yep, and in War Thunder, isn’t it funny how any SPAAG which is truly an “effective” menace is one that kills both tanks and aircraft easily? Almost like that’s what the city clusterfuck game mechanics encourage…which then makes me wonder of course why then SPAAG get penalized for tankbusting when gameplay mechanics are encouraging them to do so.
I’d rather see the game pivot to fully encouraging SPAAG Ersatz TD mode and downtiering a bunch of them, expecting them to do so, giving them their missing APCR/APDS rounds as necessary.
It was too powerful before, and certainly needs no buff now. The pen nerf wasn’t a nerf to the Kugel, it was just Gajin’s calculator being standardized.
No, it really was not. Certain contemptible people freaked the fuck out about SPAAG shredding their tanks and whined until snail serviced them by neutering it. Even though this game routinely has us using literally everything else in ways they weren’t designed to be.
IMHO, SPAAG across the board need to be rebuffed in their tank-killing prowess, and their anti-air ability also needs help. The counters to CAS should intentionally be just as easy to use successfully at shooting down CAS as CAS is bombing most tanks. And in order for those SPAAG to be in proper position in average player hands, they gotta be able to kill tanks easily at least from the sides or the idiots will sit in their own spawns uselessly, then wonder why they die to planes still.
You can .50 cal the Prada’s ammo boxes on the gun and kill it… that’s why it’s 6.3 it’s a very squishy spaa.
cough cough I don’t think a Praga is equal to a Coelian at all.
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Certain reasonable people complained that a tank that costs less than normal tanks is better at killing tanks that normal tanks, whilst also being arguably overpowered against air (meaning you can’t even counter the OP vehicle with CAS).
It’s not like it was just some noob group of whiners, it was everyone who didn’t play Germany.
Again, the nerfs were justified.
I never said that I agree with SPAAG being 70SP “borderline-throwaway” vehicles, man. Also an SPAAG you can’t overpressure from a mile away doesn’t mean it’s overpowered. A Kugel will die to a bomb drop or direct rocket hit like any other tank would.
Anyone who complained about SPAAG killing their tanks through legitimate means like ordinary side or rear shots any other normal tank would do should not be listened to anymore. Exploitation of armor holes, MG ports, barrel damage, and cupola shots is a different story - all that is bullshit in my book
No, they were overkill, and need to be reverted completely. The game has changed a ton in nearly 10 years since they first started happening to the gun and ammo in question. Chances are the majority of people who called for such nerfs are long gone, too.
I mean M53/59 you can kill him even with the coaxial, just aim for the gunner first, or use explosive munitions.
Kugel a little harder, just use your main gun as if a normal mbt
Exactly. It’s a truck.
Yup, the only “modestly difficult” SPAAG to kill are the Coelian and XM246, the former because it has some level of actual armor and the latter due to a bugged damage model. Everything else may as well be glass.
I remember fondly while spading my T-10M I got jumped by an ItsPv, he barreled me but forgot to take out my commander-mounted 14.5, which I promptly hosed him down with and killed him with. And that one is mostly a normal tank.