I mean idiots will say what they want, the tank is a tank.
Not a tank destroyer. Even the tank chat from bovington (which I think is a nice inofrmative package for the S tank) states that it is a tank, its not a case mate in the same concept as say a jagpanther, it’s more of a tank turret on tracks xD
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Yeah, my all time favorite is the Cheiftain videos for WOT, they are, really good.
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My dismissal of it might be coming off as saying it’s a bad platform. I’m sure it’s a fine platform, as most every platform in the current day is. But a lot of the systems India presumably has access to with the Rafale platform should have reduced this probability heavily. It’s better to lose it to something that’s only got a few known issues than say losing it to a phantom. But I do hold the losses would have been incredibly unlikely if equipment was used with fear than comfort, from my brief understanding of how they lost them.
J10 is competent, has a few issues, but holds pretty well for what it is. But I do think that part of its success in this event has been pilots being far too comfortable against the foe and far too sure of the Rafale platform. An exceptional platform when used appropriately, to be sure, but comfort is the enemy of awareness really. But we won’t know for an age what happened, other than Dassault is likely very unimpressed.
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You are helpful, the folk I usually terrorise couldn’t find a nice one.
I’ll have to pick it up when I get the French Leclerc and Mirage models.
Yeah, it’s really the only one other than micro-scale ones for a mini board game, I was potentially hoping for a bigger company like Meng, RFM, RPG, or even Tamiya to come along and make one, but I’ve been waiting a while, I have a list of parts if you’d like them.
A meng strv103 would be exceptional (and likely extortionately expensive)
Aye, would be handy.
Yeah, I have a Meng PZH 2000 I refuse to finish because the workable plastic tracks that are supposed to be ‘no cement’ are living hell. Was thinking of doing a ‘captured Russian’ theme for the vehicle. I’ll PM the parts.
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Felt that, I’ve to wait for replacement track sprue from Meng before I can continue with T90A from them 😿
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So F-22 can be 13.7 since Rafale better?
That’s how US mains view it
They did a lot on the actual chieftain discussions as well.
Yeah but thats war unfortunately, as well as this, the rafale is very well equipped, however so are the J10’s pakistan has if im not missinformed, which is a possibility.
They are still equipped with very strong radars, missiles and counter measure kits etc, as far as i do know, the rafales are only to the F3 standard, which while it has meteors and talios its no where near frances current F5 standard which is substantially more upgraded (as far as I know india is persuing that though)
While pakistan has the J10C. which is equipped with similar missiles in the PL15’s and similar radar capabilities (not quite as good though)
, dont get me wrong I am not saying hte J10 is better than the rafale especially not here, however they are much closer matched than what the report I initially read led to believe.
Though I do 100 percent agree that the complacency is likely what led to the shoot down as you rightly say.
And so they should be, actually reminds me a lot of when the chieftains got their arses kicked over in the middle east, which was absolutely nothing to do with the tank, but how it was used which made it look garbage.
F5 standard doesn’t exist yet, plus the f3r that the Indians have incorporates many things from the f4, can’t remember off the top of my head
You said the Rafale was better. So why wouldn’t the F22 be a lower BR?
It exists but is being implemented, apologies the article I was reading led it as if france was actively using f5 standard not in the works of implementing it.
They’re surprisingly close to current French kit, with some of the bells and whistles from the F4 standard from memory. Which is why I’m skeptical that this should have occurred were it not for complacent pilots. The J10s were well equiped, but the situational awareness of the Rafale generally should have kept them appraised well enough of the environment that this shouldn’t really have happened, at least not the quick succession of losses. Especially when noting they lost one to a ground position which tends to either suggest abysmal intelligence, or overconfidence and misuse.
Aye, I’m not sledging the J10s, just saying that the kit the Indians have should have made what happened quite the effort. I’d expect a loss, but a few in such a short span is just a special effort. Rafale’s a weapons system like any other, as I said. You will lose some, but to lose them so quickly is an indictment of the utilisation than the system itself.
But we won’t really know what happened for a good long while, and can only ponder it really.
Realistically neither of these planes should shoot another down without it being a prolonged engagement, or as you say a complacent pilot in either seat.
Aye thats the difference, cant argue with that.
though it seems to me one has been training more rigerously for the situation . while others as you say are complacent and it shows now
shame for the pilots but TBH
Worst case scenario, it spurs the French to make Rafale even better out of spite.
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That or india makes something out of spite who knows
It is entirely possible they use the losses to justify more investment in the Tejas 2, but I’ve little in the way of qualifications to speculate further.
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Aye speculation gets us nowhere