But I’ve honestly never once seen someone clearly lay out and commit to what they think DOES make a good map?
I also have never seen Gaijin ask the community what they want in a map and what is wrong with some of the maps and instead they make changes to them based on what they ‘believe’ and they ‘assume’ as that’s how they run this game.
Italy, sweden, more rarely usa, ussr and germany
There’s not that many bushes compared to some maps. “drive 5+ minutes” the map isn’t that big, if you’re playing low tier then no you don’t want bigs maps hence the knife fight maps.
The issue is your knife fight maps apply at 11.7 games as well and it sucks ass.
Overall? Then it’s small Tunisia (domination one), Ardennes (domination variations too), smaller version of Maginot line (ofc domination), Normandy (not fields), Flanders, Sinai (not sands of sinai), Eastern Europe (not province), small Mozdok (thankfully they removed huge one).
Karelia and Middle East are also pretty good but I personally don’t really like them. Breslau and Alaska are playable. Other maps I’d put in “never see again” category.
This is what I mean.
People want the match to be 3 minutes tops. I wish Gaijin would remove crew lock if they’re going to continue encouraging this playstyle.
Well Gaijin has ways of asking hundreds of thousands of players simultaneously every day, such as by looking at heat maps of where people drive (and where their rounds impact as well), which spawns they choose to spawn at each time, whether they 0 death leave, etc. etc. So I dispute that they are “assuming” much of anything at all about players’ opinions.
But that doesn’t give an objective answer about what to do next, what exact flavor of solutions to consider, etc, which is more what this is about. They could try something and measure it, and get another objective answer after the fact, but the initial guess is still a guess, and fewer tries is better.
I assume you want artillery fights? Do you really want ppl to guard rocks and bushes for 20 minutes? You should try fleet then. Not the coastal tho, it’s an action horror.
There is no evidence they have anything of the sorts, I have never seen a heatmap of the game nor do we know if they can even track spawn points and whatnot, so that would seem you’re assuming they have those things.
But that doesn’t give an objective answer about what to do next, what exact flavor of solutions to consider, etc, which is more what this is about. They could try something and measure it, and get another objective answer after the fact, but the initial guess is still a guess, and fewer tries is better.
Which is why they could just try to communicate with the community and see what issues they have.
Yes there is evidence, it’s called the replay server, we know 100% for a fact they store all that data, down to where you move on a second by second basis, because you can go rewind and view it yourself.
Even if there wasn’t a replay server, “Maybe a large game company doesn’t have a basic database for basic game events???” is on par with saying that “There’s no evidence that the McDonald’s corporate headquarters has conference rooms in it”
Which is why they could just try to communicate with the community and see what issues they have.
That’s why I made this thread. I’m just clarifying that they ARE 100% measuring the shit out of you all the time. The only issue is decisions about future changes, which cannot, of course, be measured, until implemented. (Because time travel, causality, etc)
- Yes there is evidence, it’s called the replay server, we know 100% for a fact they store all that data, down to where you move on a second by second basis, because you can go rewind and view it yourself.
Having a replay system doesn’t mean they have the ability to extract all the data from it.
Even if there wasn’t a replay server, “Maybe a large game company doesn’t have a basic database for basic game events???” is on par with saying that “There’s no evidence that the McDonald’s corporate headquarters has conference rooms in it”
I don’t assume anything from Gaijin except incompetence, as that is the only thing they have proven.
There is nothing that indicates they have this information and if they have this information there is no signs anything is done with this information as is evident with problematic issues persisting for an entire decade at this point with nothing being done to address or alleviate the issues.
So if they do have this data it comes down to incompetence again, or maybe indifference at best.
Having a replay system doesn’t mean they have the ability to extract all the data from it.
Literally just like a few lines of code would give you a heat map as an analyst without even having to bother a software dev:
select x_coord-mod(x_coord,10) as x_10m_block,
y_coord-mod(y_coord,10) as y_10m_block,
minute(timestamp) as "game_minute",
count(*) as traffic,
count(distinct match_id) as num_matches
from position_events
where map = 'Alaska'
and date [is in such and such range]
group by 1,2,3
(Put in Excel, make a pivot chart in a minute or two, use color formatting = ta da heatmap)
Again, saying you think a major game company might not have a database is like saying they don’t have bathrooms at Gaijin HQ, or chairs.
Yet no one has been able to use the replay system and create some heatmaps themselves?
Either way a heatmap doesn’t tell you anything about good or bad map design, which requires some understanding of the game to interpret correctly with any sort of accuracy.
Either way Gaijin could have the most sophisticated set of information of any game ever, it doesn’t matter when they could not care less about good map design.
Just played Mozdok … just why … I liked the map especially because you could flank there. *sry for OT …
Considering that Gaijin would follow player’s opinions and not their own objectives in order to make the grind last longer. I’m sure they have the data, but would they change the maps in order to maximize what players do, I really doubt it. We’re not in the same side as Gaijin, players want to optimize their grind, Gaijin wants to prolong it.
Most of the recent changes are a nerf to those that learn to use the maps in their favour.
What is a good map? I would say a map that gives purpose to all types of players, playstyles and vehicles.
Not changes like we recently had in Normandy, Alasca or Korea(38th Parallel), once maps that I really enjoyed seeing, but not so much now.
What is a bad map(in my opinion)? Every single cap map version, the recent reduced versions of the single cap maps, flat maps(like that one with the church in the center) or some mostly CQC urban maps.
Having replays doesnt mean they have the tech or resources to track specific tracing of each tank on each map of every game. That would require more resources and servers than what it takes to develope and run the game. Moreover, the data just shows what we already know…As mentioned many maps only have 3 lanes, you dont need a heat map to see the players only using those lanes…
My guess is that they look very closely at how many players on which maps leave the battle early and which players these are.
Nothing against ODL. I have my opinion on it. But I also respect the reasons.
Large maps are generally better overall as you can put more routes and ways to play the map in them and as a result offer playstyles that are almost impossible on small maps.
At the same time the maps should also scale based on br. Meaning the higher you go in br the larger the maps should get.
Maps at top tier should always be around the size of large Fulda, maginot, red desert, Poland, European province, the new(old) large El alamaign ect… say 9.3+ for that.
Between 7.3 and 9.0 maps like small Fulda, small maginot, sands of sinai and maps of that “medium” size would work there.
7.0 and below is where maps like berlin, advance to the spawn Rhine, cargo port, Sweden and other “small” maps should only be seen.
Edit: I should add that with the exception of the ones that had it done recently, every map in this game is overdue for a rework
I’m not sure what data that would provide given everyone ODLs. I rarely ever spawn a second tank, not because i die and quit but because i dont generally die until 3/4 through a match. That has no bearing on map type, spawn, BR etc. I think it would be difficult to extract any meaning from it.
their number has increased since last update of the map
if im playing 6.7 and get maps like mega poland or eastern europe, it takes about 5 minutes to get to the point. very “interesting” gameplay
mate, except 11.7 there are other 6 ranks, where big maps are unacceptable. and still, close fight is much better that firing on 2+ km with fcs
Yet no one has been able to use the replay system and create some heatmaps themselves?
I mean, they don’t give us usernames and passwords to login to their SQL database, obviously, so no.
[That doesn’t make you a good designer or make you care]
Absolutely, they could of course just ignore it, and it doesn’t teach you how to make the best future untested decisions (necessarily… it could teach you a lot potentially if you pay attention, but maybe not), hence the thread.
We can’t brainwash them to do what we want, we can just be clear about what we want… if there is something we all actually want, which is also what I’m curious about. There’s less “exact opposite” disagreement in this thread than I expected at first, so far, at least.
