What France needs - dance of dragons edition

New patch is already on the horizon, but here we are again. A nice post to remind Gaijin what the French tree actually needs. Give a bit of steering to the out of control ship that is France’s content in this game.

First of all, let’s address the recent leak lists (which have proven to be correct thus far) and what they mean for France.
For the ground part of the tree (which is what we care about on this post) France seems likely to be receiving a set of 3 Leopard 2 tanks operated by the Netherlands. In theory a nice addition, but also not really a necessary one. Out of the set of 3 (2A4, 2A5 and 2A6), the A5 and A6 would simply slot into the regular top tier lineup of France. A lineup that is already entirely made of MBTs, with these additions you can now field a completely unnecessary 6 MBTs in a single lineup, that’s just not needed. The remaining Leopard 2, the 2A4 is worse off as it slips into the void at 10.7, where there isn’t any other vehicle currently. The VEXTRA could and should be buffed to receive its actual round which will probably push it to a similar br though, great, now you have 2 vehicles there, at least it offers a chance for a new premium tank to slide into this BR, finally bringing France up to par with the latest premium tech that most other trees have already received.

So yeah, all-in-all, this is a lazy and mostly redundant addition to the French tree, not one that makes the tree in any way more attractive. So let’s instead go over some groups of options that could help the tree out more significantly and also in a way that retains the unique character of the French.

1. Researchable IFVs of any type.
This one I really don’t have to explain. France’s current list of researchable IFVs consists of a single 6.3 vehicle and there is really no reason at all for it to be this way. France has produced a wide array of tracked and wheeled IFVs. There is no excuse for not adding any these, the tree really needs them to add more variety in the light vehicle lineups. So here are a few contenders:

  • AMX 10M HOT

Now that we have the AMX 10M ACRA in-game, this vehicle became more relevant. It is essentially the AMX-10 hull with the 20mm cannon, but instead of having a hull-mounted canon, it has the missile launchers on the side of the turret, making it a vastly more flexible platform, and an actual IFV.

  • VBCI

The original VBCI, mass produced and used by the French army. The standard version has a DRAGAR turret that comes equipped with a 25mm autocannon. The vehicle can also be equipped with the EIREL missile jamming system that we know from the AMX-30B2 BRENUS.

  • AMX 10 TTB140

Another IFV based on the AMX 10 chassis, this time mounting the TTB140 turret. This turret features a powerful 40mm autocannon. This vehicle is essentially a contemporary to the CV9040 in both armament and technology. Thus it features a bunch of advanced systems that would make this quite a powerhouse of a support vehicle.

  • AML Eclairage

Once again the chassis of the AML armoured car, but this time fitted with a multipurpose turret that came equipped with a 20mm autocannon and a MILAN missile launcher on top of that. This little guy has the ability to be a serious nuisance to the enemy, and half the vehicle is already modeled.

  • AMX 10P Dragar

amx10p25m

The standard AMX 10 IFV but with a Dragar turret. Basically a less mobile, but smaller version of the VBCI. The 25mm cannon is a worthwhile upgrade over the standard 20mm that can be found on the regular AMX-10 already in-game. Could be a fun vehicle to reinforce to mid ranks. Just like every other AMX 10 variant, it is amphibious.

  • EBRC Jaguar

This one was always gonna be here, the EBRC Jaguar is France’s latest scout vehicle. The Jaguar is intended to replace the ERC 90 and AMX 10RC, so I figured it fits best in this list. The vehicle is equipped with a 40mm autocannon and a pair of launchers for the FnF Akeron missile. This highly modern vehicle is a much desired and much needed addition the the highest ranks of the French tree.

2. The SPAA gap.
I really felt that this was going in the right direction, but I was wrong. After a bunch of BR changes we still have a gap of more than 2 whole BRs between the AMX-10P and the AMX-30S DCA. A very unfortunate thing given that one of France’s best lineups is at 7.7, and both 7.3 and 8.0 can easily become pleasant lineups of Gaijin puts in the effort to add some key vehicles.

  • AML S530

    A twin 20mm SPAA based on the AML chassis that we already have in-game from the AML-90. The vehicle has no radar and is armed with 2x GIAT industries M621 20mm autocannons with a rate-of-fire of 740 rounds/minute/barrel.

  • AMX-13 S533

    Another twin 20mm SPAA. This time based on the AMX-13 chassis that we all know and love. The turret is slightly upgraded from the S530 featured on the previous vehicle and replaces the M621 with the Hispano Suiza HS820 cannons.

  • AMX-13 DCA (prototype)

    The prototype of the AMX-13 DCA. This turret is the direct predecessor to the one we see on the AMX-30 DCA. This turret was in fact first mounted onto AMX-13s as the AMX-13 DCA. The production version also had the radar equipment that we are familiar with, but this was lacking from the prototype, making it a very good options for an SPAA below 8.3. The chassis is already in-game and the turret model almost is. Should be a very easy addition for Gaijin

  • AML TA20

    Another SPAA based on the AML chassis. This time featuring a different, smaller twin 20mm turret. This turret optionally featured a radar, but even without it, features an optical tracker.

  • VAB VDAA TA-23

    This is a much more sophisticated system, one that would probably sit more in the 9.7-10.0 range. It features a set of 2 23mm cannons as well as the 6x Mistral launcher that we know from the SANTAL system. This would be France’s best option at a mixed gun/IR SPAA system. I’m putting it in here because it could be a worthwhile addition beside the lackluster Roland if Gaijin is very intent on making 10.7 a proper lineup.

Addition: Looking into the MBT options for France’s highest ranks
Okay, so Gaijin wants to expand into this area with more main battle tanks, could this be achieved using domestic technology only? The answer is yes, with a small exception.
If Gaijin really wants to make 10.7 a lineup, then indeed the Leopard 2A4 will be almost a necessary evil as France’s tank development skipped from the AMX-30 to the Leclerc. However, the latter did have prototypes and the earliest of those, the MSC features much of the tech of the Leclerc, but not the armor. The round could also be artificially kept at the OFL 120 G1, which with 425mm of pen is on-par with the Leopard 2A4 round. This vehicle would combine excellent mobility and firepower with very little armor, turning it into a sort of super XM-1. This vehicle would serve as an excellent candidate to become a premium.

It is also worth noting that all Leclerc’s in-game are currently outfitted with an underperforming armor-array. Gaijin considers the records of the Swedish trials as the holy grail for the armor, but the vehicle that was tested there, was a prototype, with prototype armor. There are plenty of good sources to prove this, but essentially Gaijin can add any of the other proto Leclercs (Ares, Bayard, Carnot, …) at 11.7 with the actual proto armor and just fix the armor on the production vehicles and boom, you have a top-tier premium tank.

Additionally, there is plenty more Leclerc variants that could be added to the game. Sure, they’ll all practically be the same playstyle, but at least you’re not polluting the top tier with a bunch of copy & paste additions.
Still available are:

  • Leclerc XLR
  • Leclerc EAU
  • Leclerc CLARA
  • Leclerc SXXI AZUR
  • Leclerc T4 (Terminateur)
  • Leclerc Evolution

And besides that we also have several stages of EMBT development:

  • EMBT 2017 (LeoClerc)
  • EMBT 2022
  • EMBT 2024 (this one is a stretch as the displayed prototype did not appear fully functional)

So were are definitely nowhere near needing the addition of several Leopard 2 variants to pad out top tier lineups, there’s plenty of domestic stuff to be added, the effort just needs to be put in to actually make them instead of an easier copy, paste and profit action.

Conclusion:
France is nowhere near needing C&P solutions to plug gaps, there’s plenty of options for almost every gap, however, these gaps need to be acknowledged and worked on. The VEXTRA was already an excellent addition, the 3 SPAAs that were added recently were also amazing to extend existing lineups with functional anti-air. I think I speak for almost everyone when I say that we just want to be listened to and see structural and unique improvements for our tree. Adding 10.7 is a good thing, absolutely, but let it come with some domestic stuff as well. I think we are all bracing ourselves for an abomination of a BeNeLux subtree as well, expecting the most bland and flavourless amalgamation of vehicles. It doesn’t have to be this way, BeNeLux has also got a lot of fun stuff to offer, but we need a shift away from “easy wins” in the form of copy&paste content when more unique options are available. In theory I have nothing against C&P, in-fact, I encourage it when it comes to vehicles that were significant to a nation’s history and fill in a needed gap. Unfortunately in many of these cases, neither is true and better stuff is available but skipped.
I really hope that we can retain the unique character of not only the French tree, but also of other trees. I don’t want every nation to have the same top tier, I want my gameplay to be decided by doctrines of the operating nations etc.

If there’s any more vehicles that you think should be added to the list, be sure to comment them down below, same for entire categories. Hope to discuss with you all and see what your opinions on the matter are.

16 Likes

Add them all tomorrow LETS GO GAIJIN!!

2 Likes

Yeah , im with you we dont need another “Sherman” copy paste for every Nation , top tier starting to look like low tier with all that lease vehicles “US” gave to everyone !!! Thats bullshit France needs unique vehicles and Fixes for the one we already have in game!!

4 Likes

One thing I would like to say too

I think the actual use of BeNeLux is lost on Gaijin, if the Leclercs in game are 12.0 and based solely off of pre-production models, then France would be in need of lesser tanks to bridge the gap, because even the prototypes are simply too good for 10.3-10.7 by their standard
With Belgium added, I think it’d also be a nice idea to add the upgraded Leopard 1s with Cockerill turrets (as they are relatively unique) at that range, supported by Vextra 105 getting OFL 120 F2 and Vextra 120, as well as VBCIs with great cannons
Since apparently Leclercs even stripped down to nothing are too advanced for that range according to Gaijin, why not do it properly?

1 Like