Tbh I’d honestly prefer if Spain replaced Hungary so it and Romania could get a larger focus and then Hungary could’ve went to a V4 tree.
But here we are
Because there arent any countries left that could form entire TT on their own with only domestic designs.
There would be massive gaps in capability and no chance of making proper lineups.
On top of that imagine country being added but some vehicle they used en masse gets added as squadron to some other TT with justification being “lets avoid copypaste”
Depends what you mean by “actual tank” I would say.
The Belgian Ratel 90 like vehicle, aka SIBMAS AFSV-90
I very much enjoy the Ratel 90 in the UK TT and this is a similar but Belgian built vehicle with a much higher power to weight ratio. While yes, “based” on the Buffel prototype and its documentation, it is in fact a different vehicle to the Ratel family but their similar origins lead to a lot of claims of being a licensed copy.
There are several sub-versions of the vehicle which could make fun TT additions also including an SPAA version with a H.20 turret and a C25 version.
Would keep the French interesting vehicles within the TT itself, while also allowing the Belgians to provide interesting supporting assets to the main tree.
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Making copypaste trees shouldn’t be a solution… either having subtrees, but more proper - just domestic designs in subtrees, or making separate trees with “unlock” system similar to Israel, for every rank and in certain economical/cultural/political connection with existing nations. But grinding through tiers and tiers of Vickers tanks, Shermans and T-34s over and over again to get what, Portuguese, Spanish, Turkish, Belgian and many other vehicles is not the best idea. Let them have Verdejas, Osorios, CATIs and deep-modded M60s as unlockables, or just put them in more suitable trees as event/squadron vehicles, like who made the most for the tank, whether it was full design, or turret, or at least weaponry, FCS and engines.
I’m not undervaluing the user made trees - I love their informativity, but realization with using so many lend-lease stuff when it used to be only as premiums/war trophies before (USSR and Germany case) is not so good. Gaijin is going their way though
405error
Because the AMX-30Es were all domestically-built, and the ER1, EM2 and the prototypes before them were domestically designed upgrades, with some assistance from US and German companies. The SABBLIR ERA trialled on the EM2 was a domestic design, as were the APFSDS rounds used by them. Very little remained French. If a Spanish tree comes to the game, in whatever form, the AMX-30Es are vital tanks for it. Can’t just not add them if you add Spain.
I’ve also just remembered that the AMX-30V and AMX-30VE, both stabilised, might be better. I’d, again, still rather prefer them in a different tree (LatAm), but the French tree is the next best option.
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Yeah, I would rather stick to the Belgians doing the squadron stuff for the French like that too. Is a cool tank.
Not a fan of how squadron vehicles work, especially their costing side of things (if gaijin let us 50% off them for GE during holidays that would be nice) but it would help to limit out the more boring copy-paste vehicles and also allow Belgium a wedge in which isnt copy-paste akin to the Dutch xD
Though I will say be careful of going too hard vs copy-paste, pretty much all the main use vehicles of Belgium were copies, like the CVRT fleet.
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lets talk BeNeLux ground as example.
Are the dutch 2A4/5/6 copypaste? yes.
did the netherlands use them? yes.
you cant just add netherlands and then say “well youre not getting your currently in-service MBT because that would be copypaste”.
But thats how most of these countries will be from now on. And most of them will have massive SPAA gaps; or implement solutions as with the turkish TT which i really hate - pushing 2010s MRAPs with autocannons down to 7.0 to give those TTs a BR appropriate SPAA.
eeeeeh. rather not. stirs up lot of controversy on topic of who should get the vehicle.
On one hand you have DF105 and CLOVIS which are in both French and German TT. Which is fine, its prototype they codeveloped so its fair game for both trees.
but you cant do that with vehicle variants that saw service with particular country.
For example, some French mains wanted the swiss Mirage IIIS for France because it is mirage. Cool. But how it should be implemented? either move Mirage IIIS from Swiss subtree to the French without compensation, meaning a variant of a plane which saw service with the swiss airforce wont be found withint swiss subtree; or copypaste it to france just because it is mirage, making copypaste problem worse.
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If you add it that way, I see your point, I agree.
the AMX 30VE looks like a fun option, with a decent engine too. I suppose in-game difference between V and VE would be thermal imaging?
I think the solution is just not making them have a separate tree for such minimalistic upgrades. Those could go to Germany and have different camouflage pattern and machine guns, if it’s needed that much. French community isn’t happy about Netherlands belonging to France, at all, neither is Dutch community too tbh (they rather their own Benelux tree, which yeah sadly has copypaste problem, but has a lot of domestic stuff like DAF trucks and Belgian tank destroyers from all eras).
Already a huge problem tbh, but with artillery (since gaijin thinks making 2010s Pzh fight 1960s tanks without rangefinders and autoloaders is so cool, yeaaa).
Once again, must not start another controversy topic on who should own it by just making it a recolored and redesigned vehicle for the country where vehicle originates from (France, in case of Mirage). French community, again, wasn’t happy to see Germany have Swiss at all, I’d agree if Germany had Swiss ground subtree as they have their own Hetzer, Pz.87 and similar designs, but air was a big no-no.
Technically this is “Russian copypaste”. Jokes apart France should get something new in light tank vehicles area but not as squadron at the moment. My only reason why Algeria should not be in France is due to historial reasons and Syria has nothing to do in France.
My idea would be the Jaguar EBRC, possibly the first squadron vehicle with fire and forget missiles with lock-on after launch capabilities on top of having a decent autocannon compared to the western 30 mm which in War Thunder lacks in both areas: fire rate and damage.
I meant entirely like T-55/T-72 tanks with little to no upgrades haha.
EBRC Jaguar… I think many people would rather have it as TT vehicle too, though maybe it works, I think it cannot outperform VEXTRA to be a top tier light vehicle, maybe could work as squadron too. Again, it’s another autocannon on wheels, while France needs something more heavily armed. Tbh Leopard 1A5 with Cockerill 3105 isn’t bad idea at all, considering Belgium is a part of France in the game now.
NO! EBRC for TT only. Squadron could be one of the prototypes, or the Panhard Sphinx, the competitor to the Jaguar.
5 Likes
France needs a big gun, another autocannon in a row must not be an option, at least for now…
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like, just the Leo2s going to germany, but not rest of the dutch equipment?
i already see the reaction of the dutch community:
wouldnt probably happen. i get that everyone wants to see their own country as standalone TT in WT but lets be realistic and ask ourselves the question - is my country such economic powerhouse to form a proper TT with competetive lineups on its own for more than one or two BRs?
answer is likely no.
French community isnt happy because all they recieved from the BeNeLux ground TT so far are the dutch Leo2s. I can guarantee that once (or rather, if ever) the cockerill turret vehicles are added, reactions will be much more different.
dont make me start ranting about artillery in WT.
imagine being a swiss fan and then seeing that ground vehicles get added to germany, swiss mirage (which is unique variant, its just not “recolored”) going to france and then the swiss hornet going to US because, well, its just recolored hornet. terrible approach if i am being honest, not just swiss but for any other future tree/subtree.
i think it was more of a reaction from the “independent alpine TT” fans. and that TT wouldnt happen in million years, not after what gaijin said about multinational TTs after the addition of Israel.
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Poland, Canada, Spain and Australia core
(One upside to the Swiss subtree is that it’s now possible to receive a Swiss naval option, the P-80)
yeah, with them there is no problem, but with how gaijin treated Hungary, Switzerland and Netherlands, this issue magically appears…
I apologise if I didn’t come across clear but I really have an issue with those 4 being split. Mostly because it’s reduced to event or premiums that would make a kings ransom blush. Domestic vehicles would also be tough to juggle
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I don’t know, I don’t see a problem for myself. As somewhat Poland fan, I have no trouble grinding Germany tree, which I despise, to get that fancy Leo2PL after the next one → as much as I love Russian T-80 but have to grind through horrific (personally) Swedish tree (should have went for T-80UK tbh).
405error
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thats entirelly different case tho, T-80U in swedish TT isnt there because we have no soviet or russian TT, swedish T-80U is there because it was trialed by sweden between 1991 and 1994. Important distinction.
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