So first of all this is very different from light tank to light tank.
And you could also pick disadvantages other types of tanks have and give it to them as a “balance”.
It doesn’t matter how good light tanks’ firepower is because they are balanced through the BR system already.
Remove scouting from the game full stop.
If this is to extreme nerf it like this.
- Remove SP reduction for CAS cost
- Scouted targets become unspotted if the scouter dies
- Add sixth sense or someway to tell if you are scouted
- disallow spotting through solid objects or without LOS.
Because these nerfs are quite severe, light tanks should get back there separate spawn cost to compensate.
4 Likes
Ya I despise scouting as a mechanic, its really dumb to have in a realistic game, same with name tags in ARB.I can tell when im scouted, either I just die to CAS or the entire enemy team seems to have wall hacks and im absolutely pinned down.
Spoiler
Just had a match where I got scouted at this red X, and then my first peek at the red circle resulted in 3 different players taking a shot at me, lost my breach, and at that point it was a 3 minute adventure of not being able to do anything but doubling back to my spawn and replaying the start of the match to try and get somewhere, because when you get scouted you don’t just get scouted once, you are scouted usually the entire time because all a light tank has to do is see when it drops and then reapply it. Ended up staying there just being cucked the entire time till I died to CAS. Real fun stuff.
Same thing if I took a more aggressive path, they would have been able to follow my movements into a village there and the same thing would play out. I hate scouting so much its unreal gamers.
Scouting at least needs to break on LOS and for sure not be visible to CAS. I guarantee you like over half the times you die to CAS its because you were scouted.
What light tanks past like 4.0 have trouble at the BR they are at without having access to scouting/airstrike/drones? And drones in the right hands are absolutely OP the new scouting situation aside. Don’t know if its safe to push a cap or a position? Just pop your drone and in 10 seconds know if it is or not and exactly where everyone around you is. The amount of situational awareness you have in lights after 8.0? is just disgusting compared to everything else.
And another game after posting this.
I killed a wolfpack in the alley on my way out of spawn and moved here. Let me repeat “I killed a wolfpack” what does it mean when you kill a light tank 90% of the time? Ya you got scouted. So any aggression for the next 30 seconds is usually suicide. See the guy circled? Most players would probably try to engage him, its early in the match, you moved from where you shot last, but 99.99999% chance sure hes just staring at me behind cover so I don’t even bother moving from behind this building for the next minute or so.
I also got 2 of the most free kills of my life this match because some guy on our team is scouting with a drone. So its not like im just angry im getting killed because im scouted, im benefiting from it too. Its just a very lame mechanic.
2 Likes
It’s cool to just scount everybody through walls and mountaints thanks to drone.
The worst thing is you didn’t even do anything wrong. The tank that saw you not being the wrong type of tank (light tank) would have been enough for you to succeed. This is just like gambling.
The problem is that Gaijin just copied the mechanic from World of Tanks but with key differences:
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In WoT you will get notified when getting spotted. That’s not the case in WT.
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In WoT you can actually get rid of the scout by moving into cover.
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In WoT being scouted is not a drastic as in WT since the default in WT RB is not being scouted at all. The playstyle in WT actually relies on not being seen, the one in WoT not as much.
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In WoT light tanks can actually have difficulties in one on ones, often times being not even able to penetrate the enemy at all. In War Thunder all the types of tanks are way more similar, it doesn’t make sense to pick one specific type of tank and give them such a powerful mechanic.
So not only is scouting more powerful in WT, WT is just too different for scouting to make sense there.
You didn’t mention that Keen Vision is linked to it, and that your rendering is locked whilst scouted.
You shouldn’t derender when you are scouted.
My honest opinion:
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Just make their location known ONCE and not track them
Reason: The radio guy can’t possibly rage tell people where the enemy is going; meaning that the radio guy can only say one set of co-ords so it gets spotted but the marker doesn’t move. -
Give all radio-equipped tanks scouting
Reason: Why the hell does Gaijin think Heavies and Mediums don’t have radio guys that CAN tell co-ords? -
CAS reduction should be marginal
Reason: do we really need more YOLO rushers going B point and getting 2 scouts and die to spawn A-10’s coming after y’all?
1 Like
To be honest, even the ping used in Squadrons would work. Clicking the map while having to fight is troublesome but if you could ping a tank/coordinate to the whole team, not only the squad, it’d be much better. Also, at least people wouldn’t have to look at the map (although they don’t now) and would have the info in front of them.
Agreed but I mean that’s basically what pinging on the minimap does. Just remove scouting entirely, why not?
I think it could be very annoying when people just spam it. Also would I prefer the little bit of extra difficulty that comes with having to work with the minimap.
I think the crux of the problem is that Gaijin wanted to make Ground RB easier for everyone, but in doing so, they destroyed much of what it once was.
I firmly believe that the resulting lack of depth and excitement is the main reason people aren’t as committed to the battles anymore.
The spawn costs are as low as never but so is the length of matches. Matches which are decided within the first 5 minutes have become the norm.
Why not make Arcade more appealing to beginners? Instead of turning Realistic into Arcade, perhaps it would be a good idea to make Arcade more appealing, especially for players who are often overwhelmed by RB.
In a game like War Thunder which is known for it’s RB features and where Ground RB is the most popular game mode by far, it’s not Realistic that should be adjusted towards Arcade, it is Arcade that should be adjusted towards Realistic.
1 Like
Wouldn’t say the main problem is gaijin making GRB easier for everyone. That just how GRB is, it suppose to be easy to learn and play. Despite that we still got glue sniffer who fail in every tank they own and cry about the most random stuff ever , leading to nothing be done on here. Scouting is one of the biggest thing.
The problem with scouting that is it granted way too much for barely any down side.
Sit in one place
Look around
Press one button a few time
???
Now your whole team can see where the enemy going and where they are. The best part ? You get actual decent reward for doing barely anything. They turn light gameplay, which could be extremely fun by designing map allow them to actually flank , into some one button gameplay with barely any action. Scouting is pretty much one of the biggest mistake in GRB along with CAS SP reduction make it one of the strongest thing in GRB.
2 Likes
The narrowing of maps, in particular, is an aspect that shouldn’t be ignored. I believe that light tanks would suffer greatly without scouting, given the many one-sided maps today.
That’s why the removal of scouting would have to go hand in hand with improving the tactical options of light tanks.
We need more diverse gameplay again, where different tanks can utilize their strengths. A tank game like War Thunder has so much potential in this regard, but what Gaijin is doing is making the game increasingly monotonous.
One of the end results is that unique tanks that aren’t in the meta are becoming increasingly unusable.
1 Like
Can you give an example of a light tank above like 5.0 that would suffer without these things and isn’t fit for the BR it is at without them? You don’t have to flank in light tanks, just play positions that aren’t long range sniping ones and you will find the sides of tanks, even on your side of the map. And what maps are so narrow and cramped you can’t find a position to play a light tank I can’t think of one, even in small urban maps you just hold a corner somewhere.
I do believe the M18 for example. I know you can play them on a more narrow battlefield, too. What I mean with “suffer” is that oftentimes it would be too hard for the average player to utilize them.
True in a lot of ways. But if all the maps in War Thunder only allowed for camping with light tanks, that would take away some of the fun.
There is no maps where you can’t find a position. But still, there is a lot of maps that aren’t really designed for light tanks. Maybe they have 1 or 2 spots for light tanks but that’s just not enough.
I firmly believe that the lack of options for light tanks is what brought us scouting into the game.
The benchmark should not be “is the tank playable at all?”, it should be “how attractive is the tank to play?”. Because light tanks not being attractive enough was the reason for Gaijin to add scouting.
This is what a typical 9.0 Ground RB match looks like today:
Almost all the important participants in this scene are scouted. There were 2 light tanks that sat at A and scouted all the enemies and just like that their team won the game.
It’s a shame that something like this can happen because:
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(almost) solo-wining a game is okay, but only when performing well, not by hiding behind a rock and spamming a key.
They abused the scouting mechanic to the fullest and I kind of respect that but Gaijin should fix it. -
Combat there literally felt like Arcade, not a single brain cell needs to be used to find out where the enemy is
Just to make this point more clear. The way maps have evolved is a second major problem this game has.
I have made an entire post about this on this forum, if people don’t know what I mean by that:
I illustrated the core of this issue so that it is more understandable what I mean.
That’s the kind of tactical gameplay War Thunder used to be more about and that I would like to see more again.
Of course, it doesn’t have to be as static as that. But there is always a certain ideal use of maps.
This illustrates a few of the tactical options this map offers, different areas where different types of tanks make most sense. Each of these areas can be decisive if players succesfilly execute their task there.
Light tanks don’t need scouting in order to be useful, if played well enough they can operate very offensively, sometimes even behind enemy lines.
I am no active WoT player but I think this kind of tactical gameplay is also present in WoT.
This is lack of tactical options we have in the game right now:
All tanks must operate very similarly in an area where medium and heavy tanks actually have an advantage. That’s why, I’m convinced, we have the scouting feature today. Of course, light tanks need it if they’re only allowed to operate in areas they weren’t designed for.
Of course, you can gain micro advantages with the help of mobility, but it’s no longer at the same level as on many older maps like Mozdok.
2 Likes
Thats the thing. The maps DID have those aspects. You had flanking routes and sniping spots for players who had vehicles like the dicker max. But they slowly shrunk maps sometimes by only a couple meters but enough to close off some flanking routes.
They FIXED big ardennes by letting one team see the other spawn while being protected by a hill. They FIXED 38th parallel by making every exit from spwan a choke point. They fixed normandy by putting spawns on hills that can basically see each other from spawn. They fixed sands of sinai by removing the hill flanking route. They fixed the middle east by removing the A row flank route. They fixed american desert by removing the 1 collumn route. Eatern europe, north holland, berlin, jungle, mozdok.
Dont you get it this IS the game in its fixed state and these changes are why you are having this issue. Light tanks can no longer flank properly so their only option is to look at one of 3 paths to the cap points and scout.
I guess these changes were made in order to make GRB easier. But they have entirely taken away the usability of many tanks.
Of course, I understand the motive behind that. In my mother tongue there is a saying, “the opposite of well done is well meant”. These changes have destroyed a lot of the key elements of War Thunder GRB.
You shouldn’t “fix” GRB by trying to simplify it (especially when there already is a more simplistic gamemode), maybe you should make it more easy for new players to understand the gameplay and maps instead, e.g. by introducing a tool that shows you heatmaps of the last x games, so you can see where people like to go.