Just a heads up smart@ss you could also just delete the game from your life if you don’t like his idea! I’m 100 with the dude of instead of toxicating low BR with these vehicles why not the historically accurate counterpart to the game instead they mix up Different era vehicles on a fictive basis of balancing purpose… if it were that shit that it can’t fight stuff that actually could encounter why add it in the first place? there are literally tons of vehicles out there they could add… no they add stuff in without thinking… If you and the rest of the snowflakes want balancing than why not start with these vehicles by adding setup times to it cause these vehicles never were able to fire on the move! It’s a fire support vehicle… not a close quarter fighting matchbox! I do say let the cold war crap deal with these HE lobbers push all M44 and M55 to 7.7-8.7
[quote=“Aongus_Brostin, post:50, topic:203579”]
you could also just delete the game from your life if you don’t like his idea![/quote]
I’m not the one complaining about the game’s design. I have fun in it just as it is. So why should I stop playing it?
It’s people who hate the game and play it anyway that should reconsider their choices. If you ask WT to be something it’s not, it would be far more productive to look for another game.
They do no such thing. They just play.
We’ve had this discussion once before. My answer remains unchanged. If a vehicle exists, it will eventually come to the game. You will eventually reach a stage where you have both the M44 and the Hummel, both the M55 and the Sexton. And their BRs will be determined by performance, as with every other vehicle in the game.
Because MMOs survive on drip feed content and the more they can add, the better. Also, people are clearly playing them - I meet them often now - so evidently there is interest in playing them.
Sounds like a good enough reason to me.
And they will add it.
Lmfao
But War Thunder does not faithfully represent real war. If our tanks can do city fighting without infantry, then our artys can be tank destroyers. Easy peasy.
Alright. Challenge is open to you too. Show us that this would be fun and balanced. Take an M44 to 8.7 and play ten matches in it, then link the replays. I’ll be waiting.
They already meet each other in the game, because they are at similar BRs.
As an additional challenge to the M44 and the PVKV ones, you could play the Pz38t at 3.7. Or the Pz IV J at 6.7. Show your work.
Why would I want to play the PzIV at 6.7 to face off M51? why is that remotely okay to you? Or 2S1M or M109 tell me in what situation they encountered each other in WWII? help me understand pls O Balancing whorshiper
I’m not interested playing any type of cold war or modern warfare equipment nor want to encounter them in general… If somebody want to play with them fine play with them at 7.7 and 8.7 where it would encounter stuff that in reality encountered…
You have no control over the overall matchmaker, but you can at least prove the vehicle’s effectiveness against the opposition it faced in real life.
The J was a late war modification meant to simplify production. So, run it in a lineup with your Tiger II and a Puma. That’s historical matchmaking, isn’t that what you want? 😌
The Tiger II Sla was never operational, let alone did it participate in combat, and yet there it is.
The M6A1 never fought against a German KWI C, and yet there it is.
Your double standard is showing again. If your idea of matchmaker is that only vehicles that fought one another IRL should face each other in the game, then we need to rip the whole book in WT and annihilate several lineups.
And we have another one for the selfish scrapbook.
You are demanding a complete makeover to the matchmaker on the premise that the PVKV or the M44 would be competitive at “historical BRs” but you can’t even be arsed to verify this premise. Why should anyone take you seriously?
You first. Demonstrate to the world that your assessment is correct and these vehicles are competitive at those BRs. Test this yourself, before demanding that a vehicle gets shot up from 4.0 to fucking 8.7.
"The Tiger II Sla was never operational, let alone did it participate in combat, and yet there it is.
The M6A1 never fought against a German KWI C, and yet there it is.
Your double standard is showing again. If your idea of matchmaker is that only vehicles that fought one another IRL should face each other in the game, then we need to rip the whole book in WT and annihilate several lineups."
What double standards are you talking about? Me saying only 1 or 2 vehicle that I point out why is that double standard? Should I start writing a novel how broken the entire game is? I’m playing it straight from the Beta and than it was nowhere near as fu@ked up as it is now… I could start pointing out like list of vehicles that should be pushed up cause it have nothing to do with WWII stuff… yet they meet them… I have no double standard but I don’t want to sit here all day writing a novel… AND NO I’m not playing these craps cause why should I play them? cause they think it’s okay to put it down to lob 200mm HE against what PzIII J? cause we know thats going to happen… The game become broken by the day and they keep making it more boken by this way… instead of moving it where it belongs nobody would complain… as nobody complains about the Sd.Kfz.221 being in the game… in 1.0 it’s completely useless if it were let say in rank II and in 2.0 it would at least have a scouting ability that would make it usefull now it’s completely crap at 1.0 as it can’t do shit… gun is useless can’t scout tell me how is this balanced to you?
On the side note I would love the PzIV J and Tiger II and Puma in same lineup… have a super flavor to it… but it’s shit cause you will face M109 M-51 S what ever and I could keep adding the nonsense cold war/modern garbage that it will face… The player experience is out of the window.
Let them add vehicles I’m fine with that… but divide the game already with a Fu@king Era divison … Let the M-51 fight T-54 and similar crap… let the rest of the gamers decide what they want with their lineups… if you want to play a Tiger II against IS-4 and M-51 fine you can chose a lineup with that vehicles next to it so it goes up… but I don’t want to face these crap… Nor play them as matter of fact… I don’t want to face M44 with a sherman… I don’t want to face a M55 with a Zrinyi I
Easy. You said:
The obvious implication of this statement is that only vehicles that met each other in war are allowed to meet in the game.
How many recorded engagements do we have that involve the M6A1 and the KWI C?
By your standard, they should not meet each other either.
Because you are demanding a massive change that would impact many vehicles and many players. You demand this change because of an idea that you have. The least you can do is to verify if your idea is right, since it would affect the playerbase at large.
But maybe you’re just scared to find out that you’re wrong and that the M44 sucks at 8.7.
Eh, Pz III Js in real life had to worry about Soviet 203mm artillery fire. It doesn’t matter who fired the big HE donk round, if it hits you, you’re dead anyway.
Also the Panzer III J is at 2.3 BR, so how exactly is it meeting M44s?
Here I am. I’m complaining. I don’t want historical matchmaking. Now what?
I enjoy it. It’s fun.
No. Sweden’s early ranks would be unplayable. Late WW2 vehicles would be perma downtiered, making the BR immediately below them hell.
So, play it.
The hilarious thing is that in the Pz IV J, you would have a much easier time killing an M-51 than a fucking Super Pershing.
Really? The IS4M? That’s not okay either? A tank whose development started in 1943?
I don’t care what you want or don’t want to play. You’re not the “protagonist” of the game. You’re just one player among many. If you think it would be fine for M44 players to be at 8.7, then Show. Your. Work. If you don’t care about them, then you can’t expect them to care about you, either.
Now you are doing double standard by point out only parts of my sentences.
Where is the rest what I said? Like the M-51 The M109?
As I mentioned if you want to play you can make the lineup so it will go up… the rest of the players who doesn’t want to play against these crap why force them to?
What standard?
Did I mentioned any records? Yeah they never meet on the battlefield… I didn’t said this is okay! You came up with this… I didn’t said it was okay… Here is another problem I just didn’t mentioned cause it’s an obvious problem… Can we agree in this? cause I never debated about this…
About the Sweden techtree… I can only say this… Shit to be Sweden… it was their decision to make these vehicles… the could have made it differently… I think they made it this way cause it was adequate at what they were using them for…
yeah I wanted to say L instead of J… the situation is the same…
Yeah but it was not running around pointing and clicking at them like in the game… these howitzers were emplaced in a fixed location and bombarding locations with given coordinates… there is a gigantic difference here don’t you feel?
You can and you should… and there is already an option for that… which I don’t have… You can put any vehicle next to each other and the highest will count… there is your fictional battle have fun with the fantasy you wanted… I on the other hand can’t reduce the bullshit in the game cause I can’t push these vehicle out of my BR range… and I can’t lower my BR range to not meet them…
Got you you lying little piece of gun :D out of 16k game you played only 80 game with that crap… you know it’s shit and you don’t play it for that reasons.
As I said it before… I don’t play it cause there are mostly cold war crap that I will face not fun… and I don’t want to…
Did I said I have problem with killing it? I have problem that I don’t want to face it… why cause they are in a different era… thats all I don’t need more reason.
You clearly care cause you started arguing with the guy who started the post… So who is the one controversial? What I propose would angers you cause you think this is a chess game where everything is balanced and the same… I don’t think this should be followed… everywhere they do this they end up ruining the entire game…
Use some logic. I already know why you don’t want to see the M-51 and the M109, because they are “postwar designs”. I single out the IS4 because as it happens, most of the design work for it was done during WW2, so it is surprising indeed to see that you don’t want to meet even those.
Because PVP players depend on balance of performance to survive. And judging by the player count, WT is doing great. If they want to play historical sims, there are other products for this niche.
Alright. What BRs should they be then, respectively?
No. I am perfectly happy with the M6A1 and the KWI C being in the game and fighting each other.
The problem with selfishness is that it comes back to bite you. Oh, you want historical matchmaking? Shit to be you.
Sure there is. That one was an actual war, about as unfun an event as can possibly happen on earth. This one is a videogame with much fewer variables.
If you want historical sims, there’s plenty of games you can play.
Play The Troop. Play Panzer Corps 2. Play Gates Of Hell. Play Panzer Elite, or Steel Panthers, or Command Ops, or IL-2 Sturmovik, or Steel Division 2, or Easy Red 2. Plenty of options out there. WT is not a historical war sim. The vehicles are represented faithfully (to a point) but not their operational context.
Where’s the lie? It’s a BR 1.0 vehicle. How many battles should I play in it before I can say I have fun in it? I have only 37 more matches in the 15cm, which is at the same BR and has a fun donkey gun. I would say for a 1.0 80 battles is plenty.
Then shut up about them going to 8.7.
Then a competitive PVP is not the game for you.
I care to explain why historical matchmaking is a dumb idea. An idea so dumb that even its proponents are too caught up in their own BS to go out and test it themselves. Your responses prove that
- You don’t care if the M44 is unbalanced at 8.7, you just want it out of your sight
- You don’t care if players of minor nations or enjoyers of these vehicles get shafted, so long as you get what you want
- You know the M44 would be unbalanced at 8.7 and would rather not find out for sure
The combination of all of the above means that your opinion on the matchmaker is worthless garbage.
we DO NOT need historical brs or ww/cold/modern era br brackets.
The difference in time played between the people against you really shows when you make comments like this. Nations don’t fit “themes”, they are a conglomerate of that nation and their sub-tree’s tech throughout their history.
I know you want to play your Tiger 1 or Tiger 2 like in Girls und Panzer (as seen by your squadron), but that’s not historically accurate, nor good for game balance. Every time a “Historically Accurate” mode has been in play, it has always been vastly populated by the stronger side and can never create matches. No one wants to be intentionally underpowered in a PvP game when the stronger option exists.
If you can’t do well in your German tanks where they are, you’re really not going to like what they would historically face. Your Tiger H1 could easily fight the T29, IS-3, and more. Historical matchmaking doesn’t just go down; it goes up as well and WW2 was a hell of a time for tank advancements. The Panzer 3 and Tiger 2 were only 5 years apart. To give you an idea, the T-54 is closer to the Tiger 2 than the Panzer 3 was.
Some nations, such as Sweden, China, Italy, Israel, Japan, and others, required extensive time to catch up with the major nations of the Cold War.
To do what you want, you’d literally have to delete 5 entire tech trees.
This would create a gigantic imbalance, imagine you going to play with your Pz3J1 and suddenly find a T34 or a Kv1? Imagine being a poor Mirage and having to face the Tomcat at 60KM? The BR system, despite its flaws, is the best and most balanced system possible. You can take your poor Sherman 75 and play against Pz4s and not Tigers. Despite some flaws like compression, it is the best we have and people complain too much.
I wouldn’t want to be in the Tiger 1 and see an IS3 on the corner looking at me
Why don’t you just quit the game then too? You complain about balance but the idea you defend will only generate more imbalance, you’ve never even touched a modern vehicle
If you are unhappy with the base mechanics of this game, you shouldn’t play it. That’s bad for your health.
By a literal order of magnitude, since six years separate the Pz III and the early development stage of the Tiger II, while the T-54 started development in late 1944, literally when the Tiger II was brand new on the battlefield.
The point is I’m saying that people who shout for balance are nuts… I telling the complete opposite! Read what I say instead of telling nonsense…
The base mechanics of the game is why I play this game and not the mentioned above games to begins with… but it didn’t start out like this crap we have today, with every BR I look there are mixed era crap.
And this AurenKarach think this is balanced… I don’t want balanced game… but what he calls balanced is can’t be further away from balanced… the way it is now and it keeps shifting more and more… because of the way gaijin ads things to the game.
Going to point out one more thing just for out of context…
Z51 German destroyer. 4.7 have less guns than a 4.3 destroyers similar 128cm cannons… less torpedoes more AA… because of the AA it got pushed higher than a more capable destroyer with more guns… how is that balanced? Not to mention it’s in the same BR as the mitscher and the wilkinson… that have only 2 main gum. But that 2 main gun pumps out tripple the ammo than the Z51 can dream about…
And if we are wanting to balance and not want to get separated era than why don’t we balance out these ships too? For instance give more ammo to the German destoryers so they don’t run out if we are not want accurate era system why bother being accurate when it comes to equipment? Why the soviet tanks have radio in them? Most T-34 had only flags to signal to each other… so let’s decided already what we do with this bull@hit balancing let’s be consistent about it or don’t do it at all…
Yes, wanting a PVP game to be competitively balanced is what’s mad, not historical matchmaking, trust me bro.
Moments like these make me wish there was a laugh reaction on this forum.
I don’t “think” it’s balanced. I can just check Statshark. Vehicle win rates, K/D… That will tell me how well or poorly a vehicle is performing.
German tanks could not employ their full turret rotation speed while on the move. But in War Thunder my Tiger II can rotate its turret at max speed under any condition.
WT is way more arcadey than people realise. Always has been. This is because it’s primarily a shooter game with mass appeal, rather than a full blown sim. It’s fine to prefer something else, but it’s pointless to expect WT to be something it’s not. Like I said, there are other games.