Vympel R-24M - Reaching Further

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Hello, today I want to suggest a new air-to-air missile for the Soviet Air Forces - the R-24M, a modernised version of the R-24R. This missile would only be available for the MiG-23MLD, and possibly the MiG-23ML and MLA. In brief, this was a 1980s revision of the R-24R semi-active radar-homing (SARH) missile with greater maneuverability, countermeasure resistance, accuracy and low-altitude performance.

Comparison of the R-24R and R-24M. Note the minor changes in the seeker and the different fins.

History

The R-24R (NATO name AA-7C “Apex-C”) was formally adopted as the standard weapon by decree on April 6, 1981. It had been tested on the MiG-23ML and MiG-23P throughout the late 1970s, and was successfully used in combat in Lebanon in 1982. By this time, however, efforts to further upgrade the missile were being considered - in late 1981 the air force considered a version of the R-24 with an Active Radar-Homing (ARH) seeker, and while research on this front commenced and made progress to the point of feasibility, ultimately the idea was dropped in favour of pursuing other missile designs. But before the cancellation of the ARH version of the R-24, a decree was issued on October 28, 1983 by joint decision of the Ministry of Radio Industry, Ministry of Aviation Industry of the USSR and the Air Force for a modernised version of the R-24R missile.

Four test launches of the “K-24M” missile were carried out by 1984. In 1985, MiG-23M no. 420 carried out five launches of the K-24M - four combat and one telemetric (i.e. test version) - in 1986, another eight launches were carried out against MiG-21 test drones to simulate cruise missiles. The next year, R-24M was adopted for service as “Product 140M” or izdeliye 140M «изделие 140M». The NATO designation was AA-7E Apex-E. The R-24 family remained in service with the Soviet and later post-Soviet/Russian air force until 1997.

Characteristics

The R-24M - sometimes also called R-24RM - is somewhat obscure due to its late service entry and limited time in service. In Russian sources, the missile is little more than a footnote, in English sources, it’s hardly mentioned at all. Frustratingly, sometimes it can be hard to tell if the sources are referring to the R-24M or regular R-24R - so if I’ve gotten something wrong, please correct me. What can known for certain is that the R-24M had:

  • Greatly increased accuracy and target acquisition, especially at low altitude,
  • Greatly increased Chaff and countermeasure resistance,
  • Possibly increased maneuverability/overload characteristics.

The R-24M had a new seeker and redesigned fins - the primary use of the new seeker was its resistance to Chaff and radar jammers, but it was also much more accurate in target acquisition and tracking - combined with the redesigned fins, this allowed it to maintain a target lock much more strongly whilst pulling much harder turns: in other words, it could pull harder turns and not “lose sight” of the target. This was especially apparent at lower altitudes, where it was much more successful at maintaining a target lock and ignoring noise/interference with the radar.

Use in War Thunder

The R-24M would be available to the planes that used it - the MiG-23ML, MiG-23MLD and MiG-23MLA. Perhaps increasing their BR to 12.0 might be in order. In a nutshell, the R-24M would be a superior version of the R-24R in all forms, even if the differences in design were minor. It was more accurate - both in acquiring and hitting targets - it ignored chaff better, and it could hold on to a target more strongly. It would be another powerful tool in the arsenal of the flogger.

Thanks for reading.

Sources:

6 Likes

Fix the MiG-23 radars (“we can’t model the BS radar modes” my ass), give the MLD this and R-73, and move it to 12.3. And put the ML/A at 12.0.

5 Likes

how did the german mig-23mla use it?

1 Like

This missile should be given to the MiG-23MLDG and given a slightly higher BR

MiG-23MLD, ML and MLA should stay how they are and at the same BR

From what I’ve seen there’s nothing to fix. MTI is only possible when using the ground for reference, meaning looking down for target acquisition against a target moving across terrain. I believe this was specified by tech mods. Should be fixed for other aircraft with like like the Mirage F1s if memory serves, but right now it only functions realistically on the MiG-23s.

It’s a better missile sure, but with its radar’s limitations I don’t see that happening realistically unless a MiG-23 aircraft gets R-73s as well. +1 from me either way, as it definitely has a place ingame on aircraft that used it. (although don’t know how I feel about the idea of gaijin making an even more chaff resistant R-24R when those things are already so chaff resistant as is, maybe this being added could have those toned down a notch while the R-24M acts just a bit stronger than the R-24R we have now. Maybe it’s just me but they feel really strong for what they are, especially compared to its contemporaries which I find really easy to defeat.)

1 Like

No, there are mti filters also when looking up. The only thing is that range is severely reduced when looking up, not that it’s disabled when looking up.
From MiG-23MLA N003 Amethyst Radar Technical Manual


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3 Likes

I see, but how would that work exactly? How would it use nothing for reference when it’s looking at the sky as the background? I don’t doubt it’s capable of it, just wondering if you can explain it in a way I can wrap my head around.

Also is there a bug report open for this per chance?

Basically clouds for bs3, but it should be able to use mti without clouds for bs1
First report

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/vQbSF865Q4V8

Second report

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/JYls1faLEq27

1 Like

Im nearly sure ACM not picking up targets coming directly at me under ideal conditions well within ACM range isnt intended behaviour of the radar.

This is what the bottom says. It says it has trouble and radar loses track a lot when looking up, I think that’s why devs didn’t implement it.

Spoiler

The radar station in the ‘BC’ modes remains operational even under simple weather conditions; however, in this case, the operating range is somewhat reduced, especially when attacking targets flying at a higher altitude relative to the fighter, and tracking drops may occur.

And third
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/O28RWTHQkYvi
And fourth
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/r0milhEEy3RU

Even if BSI doesn’t actually provide any MTI versus targets not backdropped by terrain it’d still be massively preferable to having MTI completely disabled when nose above the horizon, which even prevents detection and locking of targets very much within ground cohesion.

im a bit confused is the R-24M an arh variant of r24r ? or is it still a sarh and it got cancelled for other missiles ?. but later on u say it entered service ?

It’s SARH, slightly better seekerhead

Og r24 stats
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@TheFinalStarman do you have any stat tables for the r24mr like the one I just posted for the r24t/r