What about players wanting to have a realistic Korean war feeling?
This plane played a major role in Korea and needs to be in the game.
Im sorry but war thunder random battles and realistic scenarios have nothing in common.
By that logic we would not have au-1, f8f-1, f8f-1b, f4u-4b, f4u-7, sea fury, hornet and hundred more
Thanks for the compliment tho :)
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If you want interesting engine features you read the secret horspower race instead of playing war thunder XD
Anyways:
mk22 uses 100/130 octane and has a very interesting griffon engine
P51H has the most advanced merlin ever with many developments
And F4U-5 has the most advanced radial engine supercharger of a fighter that saw combat.
If that is not interesting I dont know what will be…
Also ta152H1 is the easiest to fly of all the planes you mention, it can bully anything…
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Relax it is just a game.
I am not sure why you come to rather strange interpretations of what i wrote - but i try to make it easier for you:
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An aircraft is undertiered if an experienced pilot has no realistic chance to win a fight if his equally skilled opponent flies it. In other words - if the technological / performance gap is too large to close it with skill the fun is gone.
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My whole answer was based on WW 2 immersion - WW 2 ended 09.1945. So fighting a 1946 service aircraft in a 1944 service aircraft is not pleasing everybody.
You might read my initial post again to see that this was my core message.
Have a good one!
greg video is a bit bad on info, he does not have many sources
Anyways, F4U-5 has 28 gallons of water and would last around 9 minutes as per SAC, you have this source in the original post.
In game it would last 12 minutes to be generous.
Totally agree, but as long we have no era seperation (this won’t happen in the current state of wt) we have this convoluted mess of WW 2, post WW 2, Korean War, etc.
I would love to see how the vote might change if the F4U-5 had to face MiG 15s…
I am fully aware of this.
No, those planes would fight in era separation other post war service aircraft. Btw: I see the F4U-4b and the F8F-1 as WW 2 era service aircraft…
I fully agree that post WW 2 service aircraft of the USN/RN have a severe disadvantage vs contemporary land-based jet aircraft - but i described the reasons earlier…
So it just depends on your pov!
Well the first 4B was built postwar and the F8F-1 never saw combat
The G56 also never saw combat and the Ta152C3 we have in game is a paper plane.
Where we draw the line?
Luckly other simulators with historical settings like IL2 exist for people looking for that.
I am not an engineer and i read way too much - but i will consider reading it.
But i am still convinced that this discussion “post war props vs post war jets” is rather useless. To make an analogy: In 1983 is was nice to have the most sophisticated naturally aspirated Formula 1 engine - way less sophisticated engines with a turbocharger won the races and the Championship…
Its a good book regardless, you will learn on the way
I was referring to the fact that at least to my knowledge the F4U-4b was ordered just as an upgraded version (cannons) of the F4U-4. Therefore i added it to my list of WW 2 service aircraft.
If you as Corsair expert classifies the F4U-4b as post war - be my guest, i won’t question your assessment.
The pure fact that F8F -1saw service (like the recon version of the F7F) makes them from my perspective a WW 2 aircraft. Same as the P-51 D-30 (no kills) or the P-51 H-5 (no kills and no service in Korea)…
Quite simple: An era end with a certain date.
References to Il-2 won’t change expectations - if you follow the fellow tank players there are lots of discussions regarding wishes of era separations of ground warfare, the same reason: Immersion.
Anyways, era separation discussion is off topic really here.
Here have F4U-5N walk around :)
And history of 19
Kinda, though the F4U-5 has an incredibly good supercharging system. It would be noticeably better than the 4B.
…because it sits at 6.3? And it’s the only somewhat good japanese 6.3 prop fighter, now that the J6K is somehow up to 6.7.
That’s the point lol, the P-51H is undertiered AND the others are overtiered, causing a massive imbalance.
Sure they can, if USA air players knew what teamwork or playing to their strengths was. Me and my friends in a squad can and have easily dogged on groups of spitfires and Yak3s (better aircraft than what we had) by simply playing intelligently.
Which is now below all A6M5 Zeros, and even an A6M3 model. You know, planes that go 100kph slower up at 6km than the Bearcat does at sea level. I played it first day after the BR change and it is completely brainless for 90% of the time you’re using it.
152H gets bullied by anything that can exceed its poor climb rate or reliably outturn it.
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well my bad if i overreacted, but it very much seemed that you were overexaggerating the performance of us planes to make many of them seem undertiered when the majority aren’t, which many people are. i already talked about those matchups you listed. i know what you mean by historical matchmaking, but theres also a lot of people who want to see planes and tanks added that would not be competitive for their period. there may be an issue of having only a few dominant vehicles in historical matchmaking as well, in the current balancing later compared to older vehicles are mostly balanced anyways, although heavy tanks not actually being heavy tanks is kinda sad. historical matchmaking could still work, but it would need a lot of changes to the current modes from gaijin and knowing their history would probably not happen
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i only read the previews shown here and didnt come to look at the sources directly so thx, also didn’t know that part about greg, only heard him say he has manuals and similar stuff in patreon for paid access, thx for sharing. about the water injection time, how does the 109k4 and bearcat have 20 and 18 minutes of wep though, were they also buffed by gaijin? or just an exception?
to clarify, do you know where the 2760 hp listed came from then? its also in chance voughts brochure
Just dev being generous, maybe without even knowing. They dont calculate flow rates or anything, just do it by eye.
Early combat power estimations.
Combat power was later tested in flight tests and you can see actual power in my sources and SACs
Nah, its one of the strongest planes in the BR and its very easy to abuse flaps on it and outturn everything. Plus airspawn, good armament and infinite energy retention.
But well, this is off topic XD
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it is so clearly only by a marginal amount? if you had actually took the time to read metrallaroja’s recent posts instead of talking the corsairs wep time is also reduced to 8.8 minutes. If this ever gets added gaijin could easily nerf the corsairs any time they want.
you mean because japan is missing a good fighter for 6.3 lineup? if your point was it being overtiered i already said i also thought it was, and the j6k like other planes with excessive guns are often overtiered which i also have said? many other nations also have missing vehicles at particular brs so what exactly are you trying to prove, and how do you even know that was what the OP was talking about?
in the same message I asked op why he was comparing the p51h against overtiered planes, which the us has many of, rather than the competitive planes of other nations. you are literally doing the exact same thing with ZERO difference, like did you read? if ur talking about japan not having good 6.0+ vehicles, and for whatever reason that means the p51h has to be at the furthest br from them, that makes absolutely no sense. Please explain to me how the f8f1b and f7f1 are meta in dms if u so wish.
idk how often you play 6.0+, but 60-80% of the time 6.0+ vehicles all get uptiered to jets at 7.0, 5.7 gets a lot of downtiers… which coincidentally, japan has a lineup there! if not that and your saying the p51h has performance equal to be 6.7, let me break it down into simpler terms for you:
if the p51h had more wep it would be 6.7; if the p51h had cannons it would be 6.7. Get it? The whole reason its at 6.3 is because of the 8:40 wep of which only 4min+ is left after climbing. If any competent enemy players keeps their speed alt, know how to dodge and reclimb properly, it can and will easily take over 1min wep on to get a good shot on any opponent that knows these basics because the plane with 50 cals is not snappy enough to constantly sustain bursts at 600m+, or requires a lot of constant precision mouse control, that very clearly is hard for most people.
there are so many ways to this as I have said in my previous message:
I would love to see video proof of absolute textbook tactics from a squad in bearcats taking down competent enemy players that don’t make massive mistakes
what are you exactly trying to prove here? U just plainly admitted you were in a squad playing against randoms, now what, ur gonna tell me you didnt know squads are so much more coordinated than randoms? amazing…
let me repeat myself the last time:
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bnzing in planes that have worst retention compared to turn fighting planes with better retention is the harder playstyle of the two (if u so wish to debate this with valid comparisons id love to see them in dms).
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most us players choose the us because they only heard of us vehicles being good and dont have the time or dont want to learn about other vehicles, most likely the average bad players.
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EVEN IF a large portion of ppl had the skills bnz against competent turnfighters, it takes a lot longer to get kills, and most people dont have the patience so they rather play turnfighting planes, and you clearly dont seem to understand such a simple phenomenon.
you say your squad easily destroyed spitfires and yaks yet in my whole time of playing us props I dont think I ever remember seeing any bnzing squad going around destroying lobbies, u are clearly trying to make it seem like theres a constant us tryhard squad going around and dominating when in reality theres only a small amount of players, so just stop.
I did not ONCE say a6ms were not undertiered, all of them could easily be lowered .3 br. is it your habit to bring up unrelated things if you think it is remotely connected to support what ur trying to say and to prove someone else wrong when it really doesnt?
…what. tell me u are talking out of your ass without telling me u are talking out of ur ass. U clearly totally ignored the energy retention and landing flaps which are the 2 strengths of the tah so why even comment?
what i find funny is, you came into this forum post and saw a discussion happening and after u saw stuff u dont like, u jumped right into it with zero chill that was completely unnecessary to give ur uninformed and unrelated takes that also made the thread go completely off topic, when it couldve settled itself and didnt need ur business in the first place? Oh well, it was already off topic nothing wrong with going a bit further. if u want to reply u can give a short one here to summarise and bring the rest to dms if u wish.
boo womp, also I don’t consider any of his statements as reliable
And how many of those are american? Oh right.
It’s almost as if I can read his messages. Crazy.
I wonder why he’s comparing an undertiered 6.3 to the common planes that actually have to FIGHT IT. I mean, its almost as if that singular plane alone ruins the balance of 6.0-6.3 superprops or something.
Crazy right?
…Which due to them being early jets with poor acceleration results in a surprisingly even fight, all other factors being equal.
I don’t because I don’t have or don’t enjoy playing any good aircraft there that can compete against a P-51H or other aircraft actually worthy of being a prop above 6.0.
“lineup”
Ki-84 Otsu sure, J2Ms don’t belong at 5.7 fighting the postwar Yak 3Us lol
Poor P-51H players only get 8m34s of being distinctly superior to everyone else, and can ONLY set everyone on fire or saw their wings off with a short burst instead of blowing them up. Pour one out in their honor.
Yes, because that is the only way to get reliable teammates in this game. You know, instead of being just one of three people on your team that actually got a kill and thus you lose the match regardless of how many kills you got.
Yes, I was in a very strong plane. Yes, I’m still salty about losing that to passive ticket bleed when I could have shot the last guy down if I had even just a minute more. If I had a single real squadmate (that one is randomly assigned) that would have been one of the coolest carries I’ve ever had. But no.
Such is the case with many aircraft and speaks more about gaijin’s statistics than anything else. I don’t hate new players.
Unless your teammates are awake and present, then its a turkey shoot.
Might sound crazy to you but we have other things to do and we don’t spend all day every day playing air rb, and even if we did there’s a LOT of people playing.
Clearly not what I said:
None of us are #1 tournament winners or something, we are regular players. I made no mention of our skills, just what was possible with some basic teamwork - as in, me going “watch this they’ll totally come after me” followed by 3 spits going from 6km to 2km because they saw a tasty Ki-84 right below them. I died for that but so did they, that’s a fantastic trade.
Which is irrelevant because gaijin is clearly not interested in doing so when they can put the Bearcat at 4.7 instead.
Pretty relevant to the topic of “US pilots suck”, cool strawman though.
Low top speed at any relevant altitude, poor climb rate, high speed compression. Yeah it retains energy well but climb rate is king.
Put an A7M2 on their 6, just outside gun range, and there’s literally nothing they can do. Works with other planes too!
This is how internet forums work. If you don’t like people jumping into your PUBLIC discussion, don’t have one. Btw I would quite like the F4U-5 to come to the game regardless, its still a very cool plane. Definitely more interesting (to me) than yet another top tier.
Everything I said is derived either from data collected from the game, or from experiences I’ve repeatedly had in real matches.
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simply because it is an immersion killer for all other pilots trying to have a somehow realistic WW 2 feeling.
Realism in this game is a bad reason to not add something. even in sim realism is a bad excuse. there are plenty of props in sim that destroy the “realistic feeling” Does that ruin sim?
well below actual WW 2 props like the Spitfire Mk 22
Spitfire Mk 22 is not a WW2 prop.
(just look at the P-51 H-5 at 6.3) and allows them to bully actual WW 2 props like the Ki-84 hei at 6.3, the G 56 prototype (from 1944) at 6.3 or the Ta 154 H-1 at 6.0 / the C-3 at 6.3.Their main advantage is based on high octane fuel (which allows higher manifold pressure) and not any interesting engine features. Full stop.
You are comparing a blatantly overpowered aircraft to what is in effect a modernization of the F4U-4 platform. The engine power, while improved, is not some horsepower output monster. The engine’s main advantages come from its optimized power curve and increased temperature limit. That is by and large the largest effect this plane would have in terms of gameplay changes over the F4U-4B. In other words, it would be just fine at 6.3, since the 4b is 5.7. The only real game breaking prop at this tier is the P-51H, and if it ever gets moved up then your issue is resolved. This plane is not the P-51H of the corsair line.
- The CAS loadout which helps tankers to get cheap kills vs more or less helpless ground units just based on the way gaijin implemented planes and tanks and how the game play is designed in Ground RB.
Just give it a different BR in ground RB.
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well if its gonna stay off topic ok ig
hes a technical moderator which none of us are, linked an actual test report of the plane, submitted accepted bug reports before, linked a long list of resources and ur telling me u dont trust him? if ur gonna say that then show proof?.. i dont understand.
being sarcastic in discussions like this helps absolutely no one. do you really now want to start a pointless comparison between which nations have the most vehicle gaps? Really dude? talk about going off topic.
sarcastic comment no.2. i said that in response to u saying the same thing he did, i already talked about br gaps. what do u want me to do abt it? ofc u have nothing to say about 5.7s getting a lot more downtiers.
sarcastic comment no.3. u saying this is precisely evidence of why i say u did not read. if the planes are overtiered then they should simply be lowered which i said? the g56 and ki84 both have much better maneuverability and MER which you keep acting like they aren’t better advantages for the current airrb meta. you totally keep ignoring the simple point that bnzing is harder than turnfighting probably because you cant prove it wrong. in the current form of airrb matches, if a bnzing plane fights the turnfighter on the latter’s terms bnz loses, if the bnz plane only fights on his terms, guess what, it becomes a stalemate that you need a squadmate with coordination to break… who can also have a turnfighter chasing him?
if the “average players” in jets stopped turnfighting props at inopportune moments and make a mistake but realise they have enough altitude and dive away, props will never catch them if the jets only strafe them once. the props then end up with a much larger map and if the jets use their high speed trust then it becomes a complete stalemate. most people playing 6.0 props do not like being in situations like this, and many jets also dont which is why they continue to turnfight. there are exceptions like the f89b, strikemaster, and bi1 that shouldnt have been added to the game in the first place.
the point was 6.0+ keeps getting uptiered to 7.0 while 5.7 doesn’t. the mk24 beats the p51h in all aspects than top speed. this is about br gaps which is again not related to what i was saying before.
thats an issue with yak3us then? wtapc shows j2m2 has the best performance of all j2ms above 5.2km, the other j2ms are at 5.7 just for better guns, not sure if theres major airframe differences although wt wiki also says j2m2 is the most maneuverable which i have seen many times. the j2m2 is really strong at 5.0 and i wouldnt say it deserves to be there.
sarcastic comment no.4. , and correction it’s 4m+, unless ur telling me the p51h is not going to climb, generally id think most new players dont check how long the wep lasts so theyll wep all the way at low alt anyway, and what is that 50 cal luck you have? sawing wings off with one short burst? did you mistake a “short burst” to a “sustained burst” that hits all bullets consecutively, which goes back to my previous comment where I said not everyone has the precision mouse control to do so?
u talked abt squad gameplay against randoms and it seemed like u used to show how good bnzers generally are. the point that is trying to compare how good bnzers in a coordinated squad are to uncoordinated randoms doesnt make sense.
ur gonna have to say more than that to show how planes with faster speed and only the p51h and f8f1 having better climbrates can easily beat competent players in turnfighters like a “turkey shoot” just because they are faster but have much worse retention. Only once when I was in yak9u did I see 2 players in a p47d28 and f82 ever try to pull off a coordinated bnz, but guess what, although my teammates and I had much less starting altitude and speed, we always had enough speed in the end to dodge them because of our better retention and climb rate. We killed one then after the other overcommitted himself to my teammate and killed him, he lost his energy advantage and I was able to kill him. Textbook bnz not really working out as planned in a 2v2.
was i giving the impression to u that i was only talking abt ur squad? Seriously dude?
In my previous comment i asked for proof of bnzers winning against competent players in turnfighters. Both spitfires diving down already doesn’t give the impression that was the case nor u using the ki84 which is a lot more maneuverable and has better MER than typical bnzers so it can do defensive maneuvers longer.
what strawman? what strawman? did i once say I agreed with the f8f being downtiered? Did I ever say anything about the zeroes being fine where they are? U literally brought that up urself lmfao. Talk about cool strawman.
reiterating your experience as fact now? Not to mention if theres an a7m on ur 6 without enough speed ur dead anyway. funnily enough I had an exact encounter with exactly that after I was caught off guard. all i had to do was stay at 550km if he didnt want to dive, if he did i used my bad but still superior roll rate to roll around his guns and was always able forced overshoots. some close shots here and there but having good retention i was always able to dive with enough distance and when we were on the deck i was outrunning him before he got distracted by a teammate! how bad of a vehicle it sure is.
even if it is were you suggesting that it should be lowered to 5.7? the only planes i had trouble with was the lfmk9 which was the clear meta anyway.
i was partially concerned with rules against going off topic that i wasnt sure the extent of and that u totally dont seem to be, if this is acceptable i guess im fine with it. what i was mainly saying is that my first reply was meant to be a single isolated conversation since it was off topic and that I have admitted was also an overeaction, but you however came in guns blazing and blew it wide open and now this forum is about things completely unrelated. so what, are u telling me u comment on every single forum post that has anything u dont like? It had never been about not wanting discussion, it had everything to do about the correct place lmao.
yet ur posts keep giving the idea that bnz planes would crush turnfighters only if the majority of players would learn how to use them of which there are many things to critique. Ill tell u why bnz planes keep getting “undertiered”. With the current wt economy, although there are big rewards for long activity time, what most new players realise is that when they lose a 1v1 dogfight, they do not get anything in return for their time spent. so although theres technically an incentive to keep matches long and have long fights, most people realise that only one side gets the rewards, so if they lose they would rather lose fast to go to the next match, and what fits this economy style? turnfighting planes. so when the average us player turnfights in us planes, they inevitably lose and if they dont want to quit, they cause all vehicles stats to tank as gaijin does not provide adequate tutorials for new players to learn anything about energy fighting and providing 0 compensation for the loser of a several minute duel. blame gaijin for this really, but they need to make the grind hard for money. It really is such a simple phenomenon.