I was referring to the fact that at least to my knowledge the F4U-4b was ordered just as an upgraded version (cannons) of the F4U-4. Therefore i added it to my list of WW 2 service aircraft.
If you as Corsair expert classifies the F4U-4b as post war - be my guest, i won’t question your assessment.
The pure fact that F8F -1saw service (like the recon version of the F7F) makes them from my perspective a WW 2 aircraft. Same as the P-51 D-30 (no kills) or the P-51 H-5 (no kills and no service in Korea)…
Quite simple: An era end with a certain date.
References to Il-2 won’t change expectations - if you follow the fellow tank players there are lots of discussions regarding wishes of era separations of ground warfare, the same reason: Immersion.
Kinda, though the F4U-5 has an incredibly good supercharging system. It would be noticeably better than the 4B.
…because it sits at 6.3? And it’s the only somewhat good japanese 6.3 prop fighter, now that the J6K is somehow up to 6.7.
That’s the point lol, the P-51H is undertiered AND the others are overtiered, causing a massive imbalance.
Sure they can, if USA air players knew what teamwork or playing to their strengths was. Me and my friends in a squad can and have easily dogged on groups of spitfires and Yak3s (better aircraft than what we had) by simply playing intelligently.
Which is now below all A6M5 Zeros, and even an A6M3 model. You know, planes that go 100kph slower up at 6km than the Bearcat does at sea level. I played it first day after the BR change and it is completely brainless for 90% of the time you’re using it.
152H gets bullied by anything that can exceed its poor climb rate or reliably outturn it.
well my bad if i overreacted, but it very much seemed that you were overexaggerating the performance of us planes to make many of them seem undertiered when the majority aren’t, which many people are. i already talked about those matchups you listed. i know what you mean by historical matchmaking, but theres also a lot of people who want to see planes and tanks added that would not be competitive for their period. there may be an issue of having only a few dominant vehicles in historical matchmaking as well, in the current balancing later compared to older vehicles are mostly balanced anyways, although heavy tanks not actually being heavy tanks is kinda sad. historical matchmaking could still work, but it would need a lot of changes to the current modes from gaijin and knowing their history would probably not happen
i only read the previews shown here and didnt come to look at the sources directly so thx, also didn’t know that part about greg, only heard him say he has manuals and similar stuff in patreon for paid access, thx for sharing. about the water injection time, how does the 109k4 and bearcat have 20 and 18 minutes of wep though, were they also buffed by gaijin? or just an exception?
to clarify, do you know where the 2760 hp listed came from then? its also in chance voughts brochure
Nah, its one of the strongest planes in the BR and its very easy to abuse flaps on it and outturn everything. Plus airspawn, good armament and infinite energy retention.
But well, this is off topic XD
it is so clearly only by a marginal amount? if you had actually took the time to read metrallaroja’s recent posts instead of talking the corsairs wep time is also reduced to 8.8 minutes. If this ever gets added gaijin could easily nerf the corsairs any time they want.
you mean because japan is missing a good fighter for 6.3 lineup? if your point was it being overtiered i already said i also thought it was, and the j6k like other planes with excessive guns are often overtiered which i also have said? many other nations also have missing vehicles at particular brs so what exactly are you trying to prove, and how do you even know that was what the OP was talking about?
in the same message I asked op why he was comparing the p51h against overtiered planes, which the us has many of, rather than the competitive planes of other nations. you are literally doing the exact same thing with ZERO difference, like did you read? if ur talking about japan not having good 6.0+ vehicles, and for whatever reason that means the p51h has to be at the furthest br from them, that makes absolutely no sense. Please explain to me how the f8f1b and f7f1 are meta in dms if u so wish.
idk how often you play 6.0+, but 60-80% of the time 6.0+ vehicles all get uptiered to jets at 7.0, 5.7 gets a lot of downtiers… which coincidentally, japan has a lineup there! if not that and your saying the p51h has performance equal to be 6.7, let me break it down into simpler terms for you:
if the p51h had more wep it would be 6.7; if the p51h had cannons it would be 6.7. Get it? The whole reason its at 6.3 is because of the 8:40 wep of which only 4min+ is left after climbing. If any competent enemy players keeps their speed alt, know how to dodge and reclimb properly, it can and will easily take over 1min wep on to get a good shot on any opponent that knows these basics because the plane with 50 cals is not snappy enough to constantly sustain bursts at 600m+, or requires a lot of constant precision mouse control, that very clearly is hard for most people.
there are so many ways to this as I have said in my previous message:
I would love to see video proof of absolute textbook tactics from a squad in bearcats taking down competent enemy players that don’t make massive mistakes
what are you exactly trying to prove here? U just plainly admitted you were in a squad playing against randoms, now what, ur gonna tell me you didnt know squads are so much more coordinated than randoms? amazing…
let me repeat myself the last time:
bnzing in planes that have worst retention compared to turn fighting planes with better retention is the harder playstyle of the two (if u so wish to debate this with valid comparisons id love to see them in dms).
most us players choose the us because they only heard of us vehicles being good and dont have the time or dont want to learn about other vehicles, most likely the average bad players.
EVEN IF a large portion of ppl had the skills bnz against competent turnfighters, it takes a lot longer to get kills, and most people dont have the patience so they rather play turnfighting planes, and you clearly dont seem to understand such a simple phenomenon.
you say your squad easily destroyed spitfires and yaks yet in my whole time of playing us props I dont think I ever remember seeing any bnzing squad going around destroying lobbies, u are clearly trying to make it seem like theres a constant us tryhard squad going around and dominating when in reality theres only a small amount of players, so just stop.
I did not ONCE say a6ms were not undertiered, all of them could easily be lowered .3 br. is it your habit to bring up unrelated things if you think it is remotely connected to support what ur trying to say and to prove someone else wrong when it really doesnt?
…what. tell me u are talking out of your ass without telling me u are talking out of ur ass. U clearly totally ignored the energy retention and landing flaps which are the 2 strengths of the tah so why even comment?
what i find funny is, you came into this forum post and saw a discussion happening and after u saw stuff u dont like, u jumped right into it with zero chill that was completely unnecessary to give ur uninformed and unrelated takes that also made the thread go completely off topic, when it couldve settled itself and didnt need ur business in the first place? Oh well, it was already off topic nothing wrong with going a bit further. if u want to reply u can give a short one here to summarise and bring the rest to dms if u wish.
boo womp, also I don’t consider any of his statements as reliable
And how many of those are american? Oh right.
It’s almost as if I can read his messages. Crazy.
I wonder why he’s comparing an undertiered 6.3 to the common planes that actually have to FIGHT IT. I mean, its almost as if that singular plane alone ruins the balance of 6.0-6.3 superprops or something.
Crazy right?
…Which due to them being early jets with poor acceleration results in a surprisingly even fight, all other factors being equal.
I don’t because I don’t have or don’t enjoy playing any good aircraft there that can compete against a P-51H or other aircraft actually worthy of being a prop above 6.0.
“lineup”
Ki-84 Otsu sure, J2Ms don’t belong at 5.7 fighting the postwar Yak 3Us lol
Poor P-51H players only get 8m34s of being distinctly superior to everyone else, and can ONLY set everyone on fire or saw their wings off with a short burst instead of blowing them up. Pour one out in their honor.
Yes, because that is the only way to get reliable teammates in this game. You know, instead of being just one of three people on your team that actually got a kill and thus you lose the match regardless of how many kills you got.
Yes, I was in a very strong plane. Yes, I’m still salty about losing that to passive ticket bleed when I could have shot the last guy down if I had even just a minute more. If I had a single real squadmate (that one is randomly assigned) that would have been one of the coolest carries I’ve ever had. But no.
Such is the case with many aircraft and speaks more about gaijin’s statistics than anything else. I don’t hate new players.
Unless your teammates are awake and present, then its a turkey shoot.
Might sound crazy to you but we have other things to do and we don’t spend all day every day playing air rb, and even if we did there’s a LOT of people playing.
Clearly not what I said:
None of us are #1 tournament winners or something, we are regular players. I made no mention of our skills, just what was possible with some basic teamwork - as in, me going “watch this they’ll totally come after me” followed by 3 spits going from 6km to 2km because they saw a tasty Ki-84 right below them. I died for that but so did they, that’s a fantastic trade.
Which is irrelevant because gaijin is clearly not interested in doing so when they can put the Bearcat at 4.7 instead.
Pretty relevant to the topic of “US pilots suck”, cool strawman though.
Low top speed at any relevant altitude, poor climb rate, high speed compression. Yeah it retains energy well but climb rate is king.
Put an A7M2 on their 6, just outside gun range, and there’s literally nothing they can do. Works with other planes too!
This is how internet forums work. If you don’t like people jumping into your PUBLIC discussion, don’t have one. Btw I would quite like the F4U-5 to come to the game regardless, its still a very cool plane. Definitely more interesting (to me) than yet another top tier.
Everything I said is derived either from data collected from the game, or from experiences I’ve repeatedly had in real matches.
simply because it is an immersion killer for all other pilots trying to have a somehow realistic WW 2 feeling.
Realism in this game is a bad reason to not add something. even in sim realism is a bad excuse. there are plenty of props in sim that destroy the “realistic feeling” Does that ruin sim?
well below actual WW 2 props like the Spitfire Mk 22
Spitfire Mk 22 is not a WW2 prop.
(just look at the P-51 H-5 at 6.3) and allows them to bully actual WW 2 props like the Ki-84 hei at 6.3, the G 56 prototype (from 1944) at 6.3 or the Ta 154 H-1 at 6.0 / the C-3 at 6.3.Their main advantage is based on high octane fuel (which allows higher manifold pressure) and not any interesting engine features. Full stop.
You are comparing a blatantly overpowered aircraft to what is in effect a modernization of the F4U-4 platform. The engine power, while improved, is not some horsepower output monster. The engine’s main advantages come from its optimized power curve and increased temperature limit. That is by and large the largest effect this plane would have in terms of gameplay changes over the F4U-4B. In other words, it would be just fine at 6.3, since the 4b is 5.7. The only real game breaking prop at this tier is the P-51H, and if it ever gets moved up then your issue is resolved. This plane is not the P-51H of the corsair line.
The CAS loadout which helps tankers to get cheap kills vs more or less helpless ground units just based on the way gaijin implemented planes and tanks and how the game play is designed in Ground RB.
hes a technical moderator which none of us are, linked an actual test report of the plane, submitted accepted bug reports before, linked a long list of resources and ur telling me u dont trust him? if ur gonna say that then show proof?.. i dont understand.
being sarcastic in discussions like this helps absolutely no one. do you really now want to start a pointless comparison between which nations have the most vehicle gaps? Really dude? talk about going off topic.
sarcastic comment no.2. i said that in response to u saying the same thing he did, i already talked about br gaps. what do u want me to do abt it? ofc u have nothing to say about 5.7s getting a lot more downtiers.
sarcastic comment no.3. u saying this is precisely evidence of why i say u did not read. if the planes are overtiered then they should simply be lowered which i said? the g56 and ki84 both have much better maneuverability and MER which you keep acting like they aren’t better advantages for the current airrb meta. you totally keep ignoring the simple point that bnzing is harder than turnfighting probably because you cant prove it wrong. in the current form of airrb matches, if a bnzing plane fights the turnfighter on the latter’s terms bnz loses, if the bnz plane only fights on his terms, guess what, it becomes a stalemate that you need a squadmate with coordination to break… who can also have a turnfighter chasing him?
if the “average players” in jets stopped turnfighting props at inopportune moments and make a mistake but realise they have enough altitude and dive away, props will never catch them if the jets only strafe them once. the props then end up with a much larger map and if the jets use their high speed trust then it becomes a complete stalemate. most people playing 6.0 props do not like being in situations like this, and many jets also dont which is why they continue to turnfight. there are exceptions like the f89b, strikemaster, and bi1 that shouldnt have been added to the game in the first place.
the point was 6.0+ keeps getting uptiered to 7.0 while 5.7 doesn’t. the mk24 beats the p51h in all aspects than top speed. this is about br gaps which is again not related to what i was saying before.
thats an issue with yak3us then? wtapc shows j2m2 has the best performance of all j2ms above 5.2km, the other j2ms are at 5.7 just for better guns, not sure if theres major airframe differences although wt wiki also says j2m2 is the most maneuverable which i have seen many times. the j2m2 is really strong at 5.0 and i wouldnt say it deserves to be there.
sarcastic comment no.4. , and correction it’s 4m+, unless ur telling me the p51h is not going to climb, generally id think most new players dont check how long the wep lasts so theyll wep all the way at low alt anyway, and what is that 50 cal luck you have? sawing wings off with one short burst? did you mistake a “short burst” to a “sustained burst” that hits all bullets consecutively, which goes back to my previous comment where I said not everyone has the precision mouse control to do so?
u talked abt squad gameplay against randoms and it seemed like u used to show how good bnzers generally are. the point that is trying to compare how good bnzers in a coordinated squad are to uncoordinated randoms doesnt make sense.
ur gonna have to say more than that to show how planes with faster speed and only the p51h and f8f1 having better climbrates can easily beat competent players in turnfighters like a “turkey shoot” just because they are faster but have much worse retention. Only once when I was in yak9u did I see 2 players in a p47d28 and f82 ever try to pull off a coordinated bnz, but guess what, although my teammates and I had much less starting altitude and speed, we always had enough speed in the end to dodge them because of our better retention and climb rate. We killed one then after the other overcommitted himself to my teammate and killed him, he lost his energy advantage and I was able to kill him. Textbook bnz not really working out as planned in a 2v2.
was i giving the impression to u that i was only talking abt ur squad? Seriously dude?
In my previous comment i asked for proof of bnzers winning against competent players in turnfighters. Both spitfires diving down already doesn’t give the impression that was the case nor u using the ki84 which is a lot more maneuverable and has better MER than typical bnzers so it can do defensive maneuvers longer.
what strawman? what strawman? did i once say I agreed with the f8f being downtiered? Did I ever say anything about the zeroes being fine where they are? U literally brought that up urself lmfao. Talk about cool strawman.
reiterating your experience as fact now? Not to mention if theres an a7m on ur 6 without enough speed ur dead anyway. funnily enough I had an exact encounter with exactly that after I was caught off guard. all i had to do was stay at 550km if he didnt want to dive, if he did i used my bad but still superior roll rate to roll around his guns and was always able forced overshoots. some close shots here and there but having good retention i was always able to dive with enough distance and when we were on the deck i was outrunning him before he got distracted by a teammate! how bad of a vehicle it sure is.
even if it is were you suggesting that it should be lowered to 5.7? the only planes i had trouble with was the lfmk9 which was the clear meta anyway.
i was partially concerned with rules against going off topic that i wasnt sure the extent of and that u totally dont seem to be, if this is acceptable i guess im fine with it. what i was mainly saying is that my first reply was meant to be a single isolated conversation since it was off topic and that I have admitted was also an overeaction, but you however came in guns blazing and blew it wide open and now this forum is about things completely unrelated. so what, are u telling me u comment on every single forum post that has anything u dont like? It had never been about not wanting discussion, it had everything to do about the correct place lmao.
yet ur posts keep giving the idea that bnz planes would crush turnfighters only if the majority of players would learn how to use them of which there are many things to critique. Ill tell u why bnz planes keep getting “undertiered”. With the current wt economy, although there are big rewards for long activity time, what most new players realise is that when they lose a 1v1 dogfight, they do not get anything in return for their time spent. so although theres technically an incentive to keep matches long and have long fights, most people realise that only one side gets the rewards, so if they lose they would rather lose fast to go to the next match, and what fits this economy style? turnfighting planes. so when the average us player turnfights in us planes, they inevitably lose and if they dont want to quit, they cause all vehicles stats to tank as gaijin does not provide adequate tutorials for new players to learn anything about energy fighting and providing 0 compensation for the loser of a several minute duel. blame gaijin for this really, but they need to make the grind hard for money. It really is such a simple phenomenon.
Premium J2M5 has a significantly different FM, I haven’t flown J2M2 enough but compared to J2M3 it feels stiffer.
WT wiki often has outright fictional information, like this wonderful snippet from the Ki-43-1’s page:
" For turnfighting, you can out-turn most monoplanes and almost all heavy fighters/attackers even without combat flaps deployed, but never turn with Spitfires and Zeros."
Climbing counts, you’re still superior to like 95% enemies in that.
Maybe it only works against german planes, but a short burst is more than capable of doing so. Shredding bombers is also very easy from the right angle.
“Coordinated” hahaha
F-82 more of a shitbus than a fighter. Regardless, they made mistakes.
Is that not what you said right there?
Defensive maneuvers = me diving and rolling while staying just within gun range, a Corsair woulda done that better with its better roll rate, and might even be capable of escaping with high straight line speed retention.
The one I quoted.
Sounds like you met a bad A7M player, since all he had to do was keep his alt for speed, get directly above you, and shallow dive riiiight on top of you. Then just a matter of throttle dropping as needed to stay behind you.
Which is true because they can be nearly invulnerable to the much slower turnfighters - case in point, Bearcat capable of going 100kph faster at sea level than a Model 52 Zero does at 6km, at a lower BR.
An even better example of this is the XP-50, which gets a free energy advantage every match due to extremely good high alt performance, great climbrate, and interceptor air spawn. They could EASILY BnZ everyone in the match or push them down into and below slower-climbing teammates.
But every time I queue up around 4.0 and I really pay attention, you’ll undoubtedly see XP-50s not climbing at all and choosing to go after attackers or other fighters who also don’t climb. This isn’t uncommon. XP-50s that actually climb and keep their altitude are RARE.
That was changed due to farmers abusing the proximity score mechanic. Similar to how sim economy keeps getting shafted.
appeal to authority
Not a very high bar, remember Klimb Afterburner? That sure got passed quickly, no need for extra information!
Anyway, not sure why we got the minor variant -4B corsair before the F4U-5. Would make more sense to add major models first and later worry about filling in the gaps with discount models.
Or why there’s no -4 with the better engine…
My mistake i already knew it was bad just forgot about it. i meant to say when i fought them before i saw j2m2s turning very well and has also outturned me in yak3u at low speeds. and i meant its the highest p:w j2m2 below 5.2km not above.
i didnt say it wasnt? i said most players continuously wep while only going straight to the middle which negates it.
a “short burst” meaning multiple rounds have to hit the same area, not just a few. I get that u have good aim but that has nothing to do with me saying its hard for most people, u dont need to keep repeating.
at the very least competent enough? do i have to state every single meaning for you really dude?
good top speed, good roll rate, characteristics that are typical of bnz planes. what better us bnz plane is at 5.0? p51d30 only also with atrocious rudder? yk whats funny the f82s rudder actually isnt complete doo doo like all the other 5.0 bnz and can fully deflect at 600ias lol so it rlly isnt that bad. I get the feeling they were trying their hardest but as i said our retention and better climbrate gradually close the energy gap. even if they did everything right I get the feeling ull doubt me anyway.
“bnzing squad” meaning ANY squad that was using bnz tactic, not only yours. how do u not understand bruh?
i was going off the situation that the spitfires had enough altitude to dive to catch any fast plane, which the ki84 certainly then would be better at evading them.
im saying for the 2nd time, that was an overreaction. it was also literally just me explaining why gaijin lowered it, and again how bnzing is harder to turnfighting, the current br of the f8f1s and a6ms are just an example of gaijin not balancing things properly, which u for some reason keep using to make a legitimate case. but stop acting like it is completely hopeless. they can easily dodge any passes when they have enough speed and if a6m side climbed and no one noticed they become very annoying. rudder is also a lot better than the f8f1 or p51d30 which helps for dodging. The bearcat has an atrocious rudder that u completely ignored which makes me think u mostly got ur kills in 1v1s. there are really tryhard a6m pilots that take the time to sideclimb unnoticed and have ~5kd (already minus half for possible ai farming).
everything is dynamic, i was abusing the worse roll and elevator compresson of the a7m2 and lower top speed if he didnt want to attack i can outrun him. im pretty sure he did very close to what u described.
3rd time ur making a case with undertiered planes against overtiered planes, what are u doing? i said i know they were undertiered u dont need to repeat myself. a6ms have horrible climb yea but has decent mer and isnt one of the many turnfighters that also have competitive climb rates. these bnz (high top speed/high speed acceleration, low climb rate, worse MER, maneuverability and snappiness) vs turnfighter (usually better climb rate, higher low-med speed acceleration/lower top speed, better MER, maneuverability and snappiness) fights all happen dynamically. bnz have better top speed and high speed acceleration yea, doesnt really make it any easier to kill turnfighting planes with better characteristics in many other categories, especially when so many bnz planes have atrocious rudder worse than turnfighters. im saying this from experience of the yak fight against 2 bnzers and because i really never had issues dodging p51h and bnzers in 109k4 tah yak3u.
well that doesn’t help at all for players wanting bnz playstyles
idk any of the story to that, but what i said was the sources metrallaroja shared seem legit so if they arent u have to prove it.
the -4b already has the better engine (-42w) if u mean other differences idk, -4 at 4.3 has -18w although the f4u7 also has the same but the hp looks very similar to the 4b, not sure what the difference is apart from heavier airframe and 114 400mm heat rockets. i also hope it gets added although it most probably wont.
Literally player error, that’s entirely their fault
Does have six guns.
Nah I just thought it was funny. At least one of them was in a Tigercat too.
That’d be my pick, you can play around the bad rudder and its much superior elsewhere. F-82 is funniest when you set convergence to minimum.
Well I can’t control others so idk what to tell you. Just that we had great success when using subpar aircraft and working together against a superior enemy with equal numbers.
Can, but you’d be taking yourself out of the match for a pretty long time due to the A6M’s bad climb rate.
Roll rate isn’t bad, you can setup your approach to not put much work on the rudder. There were a couple 1v1s, but also many times where I could just come in, shoot someone in a group for free, and get out completely unscathed.
Works when I do it ¯\ (ツ) /¯
Because that’s the reality of Air RB. Whichever plane is strongest at its BR defines the meta and how everything else stacks up in comparison. Sure the J2M3 or 109 K4 are decent, solid fighters, but you could be flying a Yak3U instead (at the same BR) and there’s no way to get around that.
That’s what I mean, we shoulda had a -4 (w/ .50cals) and the -42W engine already. Wouldn’t take much effort from gaijin to make either, just change the engine stats in the -4 and voila, new plane so you have a Corsair to bring out at say, 5.0.
F4U-7 is a later model with more weight as it was meant for ground attack IIRC.
The first F. 22s were produced with production batch PK 312 long before VE / V-J day. You find a lot of data (including crashes before VE day) on this page:
So if you refer to data regarding operational service or combat sorties i do agree that there is just the F. 21 mentioned, but technically seen the F. 22 is just a F. 21 with a teardrop canopy.
The F. 22s with the stronger Merlin 85 engines are definitively not WW 2 props, but wt has implemented the weaker engine of the F. 21.
+1 but I’m not sure the base F4U-5 is a good addition. They did not see much service besides a little bit in the Atlantic fleet just before Korea. I would use it and it would be fun but I would much rather see an F4U-5N. The premier carrier-based night fighter through the Korean War.
There really doesn’t need to be much of a justification for adding it when we have the “F4U-1A” and the “F4U-1A Marines” (eye roll)….
I think that airplane was an F4U-5N, just without the radar pod on the starboard wing.
I think putting the F4U-5N with radar into the tech tree would make the most sense. But I would be alright with a regular F4U-5 and skins like that as an option.
