ngl, this is too complicated for me but thx for the answer anyway, ill try to read those resources in my freetime. I just saw greg’s airplanes video on the f4u5 and he said the corsair uses 2 gallons/min from 24 so im not really sure, i hope gaijin adds the whistling death sound of the corsair though that would be really cool
dude please, im so sick and tired abt ppl complaining abt “undertiered american planes” and i feel like im gonna lose my shit, not to even mention this is the wrong place to talk about that topic anyway, but now im going to rant.
bnzing, as compared to turn fighting, is the harder playstyle of the two PERIOD. the current structure of airrb encourages dogfights that transition into a massive furball in the middle of the map where both teams meet and its the most intuitive fighting style that comes into ppls minds.
The BR setting policy of gaijin denies fights vs Luftwaffe and RAF jets (maybe in full or 0.7 uptiers) despite those aircraft were in service in 1944. That’s how this game works and there is technically seen nothing wrong with this
no idea what you mean by this
The critical aspect is the poor US pilot performance on average - this simply guarantees a BR setting (all mentioned BRs for Air RB) well below actual WW 2 props like the Spitfire Mk 22 at 6.7 (just look at the P-51 H-5 at 6.3) and allows them to bully actual WW 2 props like the Ki-84 hei at 6.3, the G 56 prototype (from 1944) at 6.3 or the Ta 154 H-1 at 6.0 / the C-3 at 6.3. Their main advantage is based on high octane fuel (which allows higher manifold pressure) and not any interesting engine features. Full stop.
im gonna compare the p51h to the aircraft you mentioned and add my opinion
P51h vs:
- spitfire mk22
why did you cherrypick the mk22 and not mention the mk24? one fits the current meta fighting style, the other does not - ki84 hei
again why cherrypick the literal worst br variant of the exact same airframe, that already has more than good enough guns at 5.3 and 5.7? i thought it should be well known to the community that gaijin loves to uptier planes with “even better guns” (that are already unnecessary in this case) much higher than they should be? - g56
I havent grinded the italian tt so I cant give an accurate opinion of the plane’s performance, but from the wt wiki (many times unreliable), im getting the gist that it has competitive climbrate (with unlimited wep unlike the p51h), high critical engine alt, turns better than the p51h, better MER and guns, and having worse roll and radiator drag. having flown against g56s before I also get the impression its not an overtiered aircraft, so idk where ur going with this. - ta152h is completely fine at its br, 152c3 could be 6.0 or 5.7 if u really want to push it, idk why its at that br, maybe grb? but still, ur again comparing the p51h against other overtiered aircraft and not the best other nations have, and that makes ZERO sense.
Their main advantage is based on high octane fuel (which allows higher manifold pressure) and not any interesting engine features. Full stop.
im absolutely not an expert on engine design so cant comment
The RN equivalent to a post WW 2 carrier based fighter, the 1948 service Seafire F Mk 47, sits at a 5.7 BR…
where are you going with this? maybe its overtiered and could go to 5.3, but the f4u4b nor the f4u5 being suggested have amazing performance anywhere close enough to rival the bad boys of the br like the lfmk9, yak3u, vk107
In other words the sole purpose of so called US superprops is to bully actual WW 2 props or tanks based on their too low BRs in constant downtier loops. Not every bodies cup of tea…
cas in grb is its own separate issue, other nations literally also get sufficient cas (pe8 and lancaster, us has NOTHING similar) but saying bnz is superior and easier to do than turn fighting… i dont understand, p51h has 8:30 of wep and half is spent on climbing.
if you had checked gaijins followup devblog about why they continued with the decision to lower the bearcat to 4.7, they literally said it is the WORST PEFORMING 5.0 AIRCRAFT. In planes that are either “overpowered” or complete dogshit, there would usually be a few select tryhards who sweat their balls off trying to get the highest kd in them, so when gaijin said that, im very much inclined to think NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IT. they dont publicly release the player stats of each vehicle, but when they say something is the ABSOLUTE WORST, im going to take their word for it than believe some conspiracy theorist. I would love to see video proof of absolute textbook tactics from a squad in bearcats taking down competent enemy players that don’t make massive mistakes as proof of them being overpowered at 4.7 now.
with the current br system, many planes are either a bit too good or bad at their br, vice versa when lowering or increasing, this should be well understood from the get go
What about players wanting to have a realistic Korean war feeling?
This plane played a major role in Korea and needs to be in the game.
Im sorry but war thunder random battles and realistic scenarios have nothing in common.
By that logic we would not have au-1, f8f-1, f8f-1b, f4u-4b, f4u-7, sea fury, hornet and hundred more
Thanks for the compliment tho :)
1 Like
If you want interesting engine features you read the secret horspower race instead of playing war thunder XD
Anyways:
mk22 uses 100/130 octane and has a very interesting griffon engine
P51H has the most advanced merlin ever with many developments
And F4U-5 has the most advanced radial engine supercharger of a fighter that saw combat.
If that is not interesting I dont know what will be…
Also ta152H1 is the easiest to fly of all the planes you mention, it can bully anything…
1 Like
Relax it is just a game.
I am not sure why you come to rather strange interpretations of what i wrote - but i try to make it easier for you:
-
An aircraft is undertiered if an experienced pilot has no realistic chance to win a fight if his equally skilled opponent flies it. In other words - if the technological / performance gap is too large to close it with skill the fun is gone.
-
My whole answer was based on WW 2 immersion - WW 2 ended 09.1945. So fighting a 1946 service aircraft in a 1944 service aircraft is not pleasing everybody.
You might read my initial post again to see that this was my core message.
Have a good one!
greg video is a bit bad on info, he does not have many sources
Anyways, F4U-5 has 28 gallons of water and would last around 9 minutes as per SAC, you have this source in the original post.
In game it would last 12 minutes to be generous.
Totally agree, but as long we have no era seperation (this won’t happen in the current state of wt) we have this convoluted mess of WW 2, post WW 2, Korean War, etc.
I would love to see how the vote might change if the F4U-5 had to face MiG 15s…
I am fully aware of this.
No, those planes would fight in era separation other post war service aircraft. Btw: I see the F4U-4b and the F8F-1 as WW 2 era service aircraft…
I fully agree that post WW 2 service aircraft of the USN/RN have a severe disadvantage vs contemporary land-based jet aircraft - but i described the reasons earlier…
So it just depends on your pov!
Well the first 4B was built postwar and the F8F-1 never saw combat
The G56 also never saw combat and the Ta152C3 we have in game is a paper plane.
Where we draw the line?
Luckly other simulators with historical settings like IL2 exist for people looking for that.
I am not an engineer and i read way too much - but i will consider reading it.
But i am still convinced that this discussion “post war props vs post war jets” is rather useless. To make an analogy: In 1983 is was nice to have the most sophisticated naturally aspirated Formula 1 engine - way less sophisticated engines with a turbocharger won the races and the Championship…
Its a good book regardless, you will learn on the way
I was referring to the fact that at least to my knowledge the F4U-4b was ordered just as an upgraded version (cannons) of the F4U-4. Therefore i added it to my list of WW 2 service aircraft.
If you as Corsair expert classifies the F4U-4b as post war - be my guest, i won’t question your assessment.
The pure fact that F8F -1saw service (like the recon version of the F7F) makes them from my perspective a WW 2 aircraft. Same as the P-51 D-30 (no kills) or the P-51 H-5 (no kills and no service in Korea)…
Quite simple: An era end with a certain date.
References to Il-2 won’t change expectations - if you follow the fellow tank players there are lots of discussions regarding wishes of era separations of ground warfare, the same reason: Immersion.
Anyways, era separation discussion is off topic really here.
Here have F4U-5N walk around :)
And history of 19
Kinda, though the F4U-5 has an incredibly good supercharging system. It would be noticeably better than the 4B.
…because it sits at 6.3? And it’s the only somewhat good japanese 6.3 prop fighter, now that the J6K is somehow up to 6.7.
That’s the point lol, the P-51H is undertiered AND the others are overtiered, causing a massive imbalance.
Sure they can, if USA air players knew what teamwork or playing to their strengths was. Me and my friends in a squad can and have easily dogged on groups of spitfires and Yak3s (better aircraft than what we had) by simply playing intelligently.
Which is now below all A6M5 Zeros, and even an A6M3 model. You know, planes that go 100kph slower up at 6km than the Bearcat does at sea level. I played it first day after the BR change and it is completely brainless for 90% of the time you’re using it.
152H gets bullied by anything that can exceed its poor climb rate or reliably outturn it.
1 Like
well my bad if i overreacted, but it very much seemed that you were overexaggerating the performance of us planes to make many of them seem undertiered when the majority aren’t, which many people are. i already talked about those matchups you listed. i know what you mean by historical matchmaking, but theres also a lot of people who want to see planes and tanks added that would not be competitive for their period. there may be an issue of having only a few dominant vehicles in historical matchmaking as well, in the current balancing later compared to older vehicles are mostly balanced anyways, although heavy tanks not actually being heavy tanks is kinda sad. historical matchmaking could still work, but it would need a lot of changes to the current modes from gaijin and knowing their history would probably not happen
1 Like
i only read the previews shown here and didnt come to look at the sources directly so thx, also didn’t know that part about greg, only heard him say he has manuals and similar stuff in patreon for paid access, thx for sharing. about the water injection time, how does the 109k4 and bearcat have 20 and 18 minutes of wep though, were they also buffed by gaijin? or just an exception?
to clarify, do you know where the 2760 hp listed came from then? its also in chance voughts brochure
Just dev being generous, maybe without even knowing. They dont calculate flow rates or anything, just do it by eye.
Early combat power estimations.
Combat power was later tested in flight tests and you can see actual power in my sources and SACs
Nah, its one of the strongest planes in the BR and its very easy to abuse flaps on it and outturn everything. Plus airspawn, good armament and infinite energy retention.
But well, this is off topic XD
3 Likes
it is so clearly only by a marginal amount? if you had actually took the time to read metrallaroja’s recent posts instead of talking the corsairs wep time is also reduced to 8.8 minutes. If this ever gets added gaijin could easily nerf the corsairs any time they want.
you mean because japan is missing a good fighter for 6.3 lineup? if your point was it being overtiered i already said i also thought it was, and the j6k like other planes with excessive guns are often overtiered which i also have said? many other nations also have missing vehicles at particular brs so what exactly are you trying to prove, and how do you even know that was what the OP was talking about?
in the same message I asked op why he was comparing the p51h against overtiered planes, which the us has many of, rather than the competitive planes of other nations. you are literally doing the exact same thing with ZERO difference, like did you read? if ur talking about japan not having good 6.0+ vehicles, and for whatever reason that means the p51h has to be at the furthest br from them, that makes absolutely no sense. Please explain to me how the f8f1b and f7f1 are meta in dms if u so wish.
idk how often you play 6.0+, but 60-80% of the time 6.0+ vehicles all get uptiered to jets at 7.0, 5.7 gets a lot of downtiers… which coincidentally, japan has a lineup there! if not that and your saying the p51h has performance equal to be 6.7, let me break it down into simpler terms for you:
if the p51h had more wep it would be 6.7; if the p51h had cannons it would be 6.7. Get it? The whole reason its at 6.3 is because of the 8:40 wep of which only 4min+ is left after climbing. If any competent enemy players keeps their speed alt, know how to dodge and reclimb properly, it can and will easily take over 1min wep on to get a good shot on any opponent that knows these basics because the plane with 50 cals is not snappy enough to constantly sustain bursts at 600m+, or requires a lot of constant precision mouse control, that very clearly is hard for most people.
there are so many ways to this as I have said in my previous message:
I would love to see video proof of absolute textbook tactics from a squad in bearcats taking down competent enemy players that don’t make massive mistakes
what are you exactly trying to prove here? U just plainly admitted you were in a squad playing against randoms, now what, ur gonna tell me you didnt know squads are so much more coordinated than randoms? amazing…
let me repeat myself the last time:
-
bnzing in planes that have worst retention compared to turn fighting planes with better retention is the harder playstyle of the two (if u so wish to debate this with valid comparisons id love to see them in dms).
-
most us players choose the us because they only heard of us vehicles being good and dont have the time or dont want to learn about other vehicles, most likely the average bad players.
-
EVEN IF a large portion of ppl had the skills bnz against competent turnfighters, it takes a lot longer to get kills, and most people dont have the patience so they rather play turnfighting planes, and you clearly dont seem to understand such a simple phenomenon.
you say your squad easily destroyed spitfires and yaks yet in my whole time of playing us props I dont think I ever remember seeing any bnzing squad going around destroying lobbies, u are clearly trying to make it seem like theres a constant us tryhard squad going around and dominating when in reality theres only a small amount of players, so just stop.
I did not ONCE say a6ms were not undertiered, all of them could easily be lowered .3 br. is it your habit to bring up unrelated things if you think it is remotely connected to support what ur trying to say and to prove someone else wrong when it really doesnt?
…what. tell me u are talking out of your ass without telling me u are talking out of ur ass. U clearly totally ignored the energy retention and landing flaps which are the 2 strengths of the tah so why even comment?
what i find funny is, you came into this forum post and saw a discussion happening and after u saw stuff u dont like, u jumped right into it with zero chill that was completely unnecessary to give ur uninformed and unrelated takes that also made the thread go completely off topic, when it couldve settled itself and didnt need ur business in the first place? Oh well, it was already off topic nothing wrong with going a bit further. if u want to reply u can give a short one here to summarise and bring the rest to dms if u wish.
boo womp, also I don’t consider any of his statements as reliable
And how many of those are american? Oh right.
It’s almost as if I can read his messages. Crazy.
I wonder why he’s comparing an undertiered 6.3 to the common planes that actually have to FIGHT IT. I mean, its almost as if that singular plane alone ruins the balance of 6.0-6.3 superprops or something.
Crazy right?
…Which due to them being early jets with poor acceleration results in a surprisingly even fight, all other factors being equal.
I don’t because I don’t have or don’t enjoy playing any good aircraft there that can compete against a P-51H or other aircraft actually worthy of being a prop above 6.0.
“lineup”
Ki-84 Otsu sure, J2Ms don’t belong at 5.7 fighting the postwar Yak 3Us lol
Poor P-51H players only get 8m34s of being distinctly superior to everyone else, and can ONLY set everyone on fire or saw their wings off with a short burst instead of blowing them up. Pour one out in their honor.
Yes, because that is the only way to get reliable teammates in this game. You know, instead of being just one of three people on your team that actually got a kill and thus you lose the match regardless of how many kills you got.
Yes, I was in a very strong plane. Yes, I’m still salty about losing that to passive ticket bleed when I could have shot the last guy down if I had even just a minute more. If I had a single real squadmate (that one is randomly assigned) that would have been one of the coolest carries I’ve ever had. But no.
Such is the case with many aircraft and speaks more about gaijin’s statistics than anything else. I don’t hate new players.
Unless your teammates are awake and present, then its a turkey shoot.
Might sound crazy to you but we have other things to do and we don’t spend all day every day playing air rb, and even if we did there’s a LOT of people playing.
Clearly not what I said:
None of us are #1 tournament winners or something, we are regular players. I made no mention of our skills, just what was possible with some basic teamwork - as in, me going “watch this they’ll totally come after me” followed by 3 spits going from 6km to 2km because they saw a tasty Ki-84 right below them. I died for that but so did they, that’s a fantastic trade.
Which is irrelevant because gaijin is clearly not interested in doing so when they can put the Bearcat at 4.7 instead.
Pretty relevant to the topic of “US pilots suck”, cool strawman though.
Low top speed at any relevant altitude, poor climb rate, high speed compression. Yeah it retains energy well but climb rate is king.
Put an A7M2 on their 6, just outside gun range, and there’s literally nothing they can do. Works with other planes too!
This is how internet forums work. If you don’t like people jumping into your PUBLIC discussion, don’t have one. Btw I would quite like the F4U-5 to come to the game regardless, its still a very cool plane. Definitely more interesting (to me) than yet another top tier.
Everything I said is derived either from data collected from the game, or from experiences I’ve repeatedly had in real matches.
1 Like