Vickers MBT Mk. 3(M)

[nathanclawfish]

[Would you like to see this in-game?]

• Yes
• No

Introduction:

Hi everyone, with the recent addition of the Vickers MBT Mk. 3 to the british tree (A tank i have very much enjoyed spading) I thought it would be poignant to mention a commonly overlooked variant of this tank that was created by the Vickers company in an unsucessful bid to provide an MBT for the Malaysian army: The Vickers MBT Mk. 3(M) . This export variant of the Vicker’s Mk.3 also known as the Vickers Mk.3(1) MBT, offers many advantatages over its previous itterations, including explosive reactive armor, improved fire control system including thermals and a more powerful British Condor CV 12 TCE engine. Unfortunately for the design it was never ordered, and was left to be forgotten in the history books, but in war thunder it might have a chance to shine as another option for high tier line ups.

for the TLDR this is a Vicker’s mk3 like the one we currently have in game with the following improvements making it the definitive itteration of the mk3 platform:

• Engine upgraded to 850hp (Same engine found in the Vickers MBT Mk. 3(i)) increasing its top speed to 60kph/37mph

• Romor-A ERA covering the front plate, sideskirts and large swathes of the turret

• Gunner and commander thermals

• Laser warning system

• Acess to more modern 105 rounds eg L64A4, DM23, DM12 etc.

History of the Vehicle:

Mk. 3(M) : In 1996, a decision was taken to rebuild an existing Mk. 3 to the Mk 3(M) standard (M stands for Modernized or Malaysia). This was completed late in 1996 and subsequently underwent extensive firepower and mobility trials in the UK which were completed early in 1997. For the modernization process the following equitment was installed on the tank:

• Royal Ordnance ROMOR-A explosive reactive armour or Vickers Defence Systems VARMA Series 2 explosive reactive armor on the forward portions of the hull, sideskirts and turret.
• All-electric, solid state gun control system provided by SIG of Switzerland.
• Avimo NVL 3200 or Pilkington Optronics Falcon day/thermal sights, with a remote display for the commander.
• Officine Galileo modular day/night panoramic periscopic
• Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver
• Avimo LIRD-2 laser warning system coupled to a bank of eight 76 mm grenade launchers
• Bustle-mounted air conditioning system

For the upgrade The basic hull and turret of the vanillia Mk 3 was retained, but the frontal arc was suplimented by the aplication of the aforementioned Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) package which was intended to provide a higher degree of protection against High Explosive Anti-Tank (HEAT) projectiles such as the Russian RPG-7. The side skirts are also provided with ERA to protect from side attacks.

The main armament comprises a Royal Ordnance 105 mm L7A1 rifled tank gun, supplimented with a 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun, a 12.7 mm ranging machine gun and a 12.7 mm machine gun at the loaders station.

The Mk 3(M) is fitted with a Vickers Defence Systems designed and developed fire-control computer with the gunner having a Pilkington Optronics Falcon day/ thermal sight with laser range-finder. The tank commander has a Galileo independent panoramic day/ image intensification sight. In addition, the commander has a monitor so he can see the same thermal image as the gunner. Both commander and gunner can aim and fire the main 105 mm L7A1 armament from their stations.

Standard equipment on Mk 3(M) includes full air conditioning system, dismountable Global Positioning System and AVIMO LIRD-2 laser warning system coupled to a bank of eight 76 mm grenade launchers either side of the turret. The latter can fire either smoke or antipersonnel grenades, in the off chance you have to deter hitch hikers.

In addition to these systems the Mk 3(M) can also be fitted with various type of mineclearing systems such as he Pearson Engineering Combat Dozer Blade (UDK1) (as shown in the historical photos) and the loader can be provided with a 12.7 mm M2 machine gun, if the need for an additional top mounted gun is required.

Historical Pictures:

Vehicle specifications:

In regards to ammo the main gun is a Royal Ordnance 105 mm L7A1 rifled tank gun, like the normal MK3 but due to its much later year of creation (1996/1997) it would have acess to more recent 105 rounds like L64A4, DM23, DM12, allowing it to fill several br’s depending on how they would like to impliment it, as it could sit nicely at 8.7 to 9.3 depending on what shell types it is given at introduction as this is basically the m60 rise or amx 30 brenus of the british tree if it were to be added.

Sources:

• Army Guide
• C.F. Foss, Vickers Tanks From Landships to Challenger 2, Keepdate Publishing Ltd, 1995.
• Gelbart, Marsh (1996). Tanks main battle and light tanks. Brassey’s UK Ltd. pp. 109–110. ISBN 1-85753-168-X.
• The Vickers Mark 1 & Vickers Mark 3 Tank - TankNutDave.com
• Also here is a well referenced video that details the development of the mk 3 including the mark 3 (M)

[F-16D_Barak_II]

Looks oddly… Israeli
It’s probably the ERA and massive dozer blade

[EDDIEGT]

i mean britain does need mbts that arent challengers to fill its higher tiers with, and it helps that one was actually built and tested +1 from me

[JamesPond1200-psn]

Absolute +1 from me! Would love to play this thing.

[nathanclawfish]

Britain kind of went crazy with era for their export stuff in the late 80s and early 90s, as it was a cheap way of upgrading tanks for client countries in the third world.

[TwitchyNGL]

You didn’t mention H6/62 as a potential round? It’d be my preferred primary dart for the vehicle.

[nathanclawfish]

It has a wide number of potential shells, so they can give it what ever ones that would be more appropriote for the br they would want to put it at to fill a gap

[MajorFooFoo]

Be great having more of Vickers’ exports in the tree. +1

[Jarms]

+1 from me.

[AVROVULCANXH558]

+1, would make for a good change from the Challengers

[shadeoverlord]

They could also add the Mk. 3N “Eagle”, which was the Nigerian export model. it was fitted with a solid thermal shroud around its gun barrel and uses a Nanoquest L23 gunner sight along with a laser rangefinder from Simrad. From what I can gather, it looks like a modified version of the original MK 3 MBT. Maybe add it as an event vehicle or a battle pass reward?

[warner7]

Quite a good looking tank. +1

[UnknownVariable]

I just want to put this out there because its not mentioned anywhere in this suggestion (well just an offhand remark) but the Mark 3M variant was built with Malaysian specifications in mind. It was then sent to Malaysia for evaluation trials but because of the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis, Malaysia was cash strapped at that time and so went to the cheaper PT-91M Pendekar

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_pdf.cfm?DACH_RECNO=401

Army Guide in fact states this fact first thing in its article. Mark 3M stands for Malaysia/Modernized. I hope to see this if Malaysia ever gets added anywhere (whether as part of an expanded Thai subtree in Japan with ASEAN, or a MAPHILINDO subtree under a United Korean TT).

[PlayedStatue626-live]

+1 ideally foldered with the existing Vickers MK.3

[Hurlalala]

+1 something other than challengers

[nathanclawfish]

Bud your facts are just wrong, the Vicker’s 3(M) has a double meaning, its for both Modernised and Malaysia in a final attempt to recoup the cost of the 3 (i) program. It was a private venture in an attempt to make a candidate for a requested specification from the Malaysian goverment. Malaysia never owned the vehicle, it was a private Vickers vehicle that was demonstrated there once for a tradeshow, but due to the cost it was not considered as a possible replacement. You could make the same argument for a Vickers mk 3 standard, as one was demonstrated once at a trade show in Malaysia, your own source lays it out pretty clear:

It failed to even get noticed for the potential contract due to the cost, so Vickers attempted to market it to other countries in the SEA region, that brochure you posted was their failed attempt to sell it to Indonesia, which also happened in 1996, i have also seen a version of it written in Thai:

In truth i thing the M for Malaysia was marketing jargon, and it really stood for modernized, as the initial push to sell it was across the SEA region at the same time, it just makes it look better if you imply you made it special.

[UnknownVariable]

I know Malaysia never purchased the vehicle, what I was saying was that the 3M came into being because of the Malaysian specifications and that they were being tested for Malaysia at that time (this was in 1996, 1 year before the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis hit).

In fact we can see the Mark 3 just being live-trialed before that in Malaysia in the photo I posted (usually mislabelled as a Mk 3M (mea culpa)) and as the source says, presented in Malaysia even just for a demo.

Whether or not its just a marketing stunt, this fact shouldnt be left just as an offhand remark - the Malaysian specification had a big impact on how the Mark 3M went about even if its just an improved Mark 3i - especially when it came to the armor when the Malaysians specifically want tanks to have an edge over the Stingrays, T-54s, AMX-13s, ATGMs and other similarly powerful vehicles being fielded in the region. The Mark 3M also got modern FCS with thermals, LWS, GPS, and an air-conditioner specifically because thats what Malaysia was asking for in their tank program.

Trade shows are not what I am going for here - its the specifications and the intent of Vickers to sell this specifically to Malaysia at that time. Vickers wouldve had no need to make the Mark 3M if nobody was around looking for a tank to buy that had the Malaysian specifications in mind (able to survive direct 105mm hits and carry a similar or bigger armament). They already have the Mark 3i, why else would they go out of their way to make the Mark 3M? Vickers trying to sell the Mark 3M to other SEA states are but a throw to the wall - especially with Thailand & Indonesia, since it was also looking for something else comparable to the PT-91 Malaysia went with and the Mark 3M’s 105mm was not going to cut it, same instance and when they also have similar 105mm armed tanks already in service.

[nathanclawfish]

The thing is malaysia heavily trialed the standard Mk.3, that is well documented, and you even showed one of the pictures from that testing. That was the vehicle that was put forward at the time for the Malaysian requirements, and was tested towards that goal of selling said tank as with the post war influx of spare soviet and american armour Vickers was genuinely struggling to find buyers for their products. And this is in every category, but in terms of armour it was their light tank, the mk.3 and their stormer/ other cvrt variants. Due to this they were quite scattershot in their approach to regions, and when your competition is the PT-91 Twardy , you need to have something a bit more advanced then the Vickers 3 (I) which was designed as a cheap export tank, hence why the I mostly involved reliability improvements.

Its not like they went out of their way with the mk.3 M either, aircon was something they were offering on their entire range of vehicles at the time in an attempt to penetrate tropical countries where older but cheaper soviet equipment lacked this important QOL feature. And upgraded gun systems and ERA additions were already developed for quite a few soviet vehicles, as Vickers had worked out that they could offer upgrade kits for soviet stock, even if they couldn’t hock their own tanks, good examples for this are egypt, and i think i have suggested more than one vehicle that was created due to this market desperation.

Basically they “Modernized” the mk 3 to put it above the existing and at the time cheap as chips soviet equipment, and this was just a more refined version of what would be dozens of vehicles. Another common trend for the 90s was Vickers producing a Universal turret, you could slap on any cold war chassis, the marksman and as 90 predessessor are the two that immediately come to mind, along with the turret ifvs for the cvrt range. interestingly the Thermal system that would be used in the Tardy would become the standard export thermal sight vickers would end up using in their later export attempts, as the french could just offer it cheaper, so it was used in things like the Chally 2 E. basically the way to look at it is vickers made a modernized and very expensive options package, and then the clients would cherry pick the modules they wanted for the actual vehicle they did the exact same thing with the stormer ifv and the scorpion 90, both of which did enter service but with half the modules gutted out at a minimum due to client requirements.