USA top tier needs a change

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
730

Oh ok just omit all of the listed reasons after that. Making a claim requires backing of fact, especially if you list direct reasons for you claims.

That and there was never a claim made by any party beyond yourself as a jack of all trades vehicle.

I also love that you ignored my statements on your fabrication of the entire “worst tank in the game” claim made by yourself. I guess you willingly admit then that you were wrong as you chose to not respond to it.

Wow what a great argument, just leaving out all of the posted context and failing to actually counter the argument being made.

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What about these quotes fails to get into your head. I don’t care what you think the argument is based off of, this is what the argument was based off of contrary to whatever reality you seek to spin.

As already stated, per P51ACE1943’s claim, all vehicles compared to their base crew, aced crews for all vehicles "excel. I am disappointed that you fail to understand that upgrading your crew, regardless of the vehicle, makes it superior.

I regret to inform you that autoloaders have ACEd stats by default outside of naval vessels.

Another blatant lie given stats from March of 2019 no longer exist and cant be found within the data project or other repositories.

I can give you the stats for the Leopard 2A6 shortly after it’s introduction and, oh my, look at that, the Leopard 2A6 carried Germany’s WR all the way up to 61% from low 50%s, curious that.

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I have no desire to “relate” to you, especially given you choose to lie and gaslight people instead of having actual, productive arguments.

731

Yeah wall of text and cherry picking reading , I aint reading alldat. Sorry because that happened or happy for you. Maybe play the game in the region you were trying to talk about before talking next time maybe ? Instead of “Muh paper said Abram le bad so it is le bad”. Maybe ? No ? Ok fine , whatever lol man. Good for you !

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732

Oh thats some rich projection.

One last fabrication before you head off, I am not surprised. A fantastic omission of guilt on your part. I am glad that you finally admit that your arguments were baseless and created in bad faith.

I will be here if you can actually produce a competent argument, good day.

733

Does not play any of the tank he talk about
Does not play the rank 7-8 he talk about
Own barely of the tank he talk about
Play one nation

“One last fabrication”
Surely , the person who actually play the thing and be actually average with it doesn’t know about it as good as you since you

Know about it , surely your fellow US main have no hand in contributing in said win rate being bad. Surely , now let look at how many game Lolman345 have on top tier , especially the rank and br where he talking about.

734

I’m not sure how this changes the in game stats of any of the vehicles that I spoke to. Said stats are freely available both in game and within the datamine github and having / playing a vehicle is not required to access either.

As far as I am aware, I don’t recall ever stating the M1 series was bad as your statement here insinuates -

Thus, it is a fabrication.

I don’t recall P51ACE1943 stating his total number of games played or his tank stats outside of the M1A1 and I frankly do not have any interest in probing into such. Statshaming is irrelevant to technical and statistical discussions of vehicles as player ability has no involvement in hardcoded vehicle ability.

You already have access to my profile as you proved by pulling up my stats earlier, feel free to count for yourself.

Hmmm, last I checked I think the M1A1 was on that image you posted, which just so happened to be the exact tank he speaks to having good performance in. Such still has no bearing on technical and statistical discussions regardless, but such is there if you have an interest in it.

735

Fuji is part of Japan so an average player there might be better than what you find among big three

I’ve never seen any evidence to suggest any nations players are more skilled than any other.

According to StatShark, T-80UK + E1 have ~50m games played in total, while 11.7 - 12.0 TT tanks such as BVM + 80U + B3 + 90M have ~120m games played in total.
So, around 30% of total games belong to wallet warrior vehicles.

As for the US, Click-Bait + AIM have ~52m games played in total, while 11.7 - 12.00 TT tanks such as M1A2 + SEP + HC + SEPv2 have ~47m games played in total.
So, around 53% of total games belong to wallet warrior vehicles.

Are you accounting for the length of time those vehicles have been in the game?

That difference is surely noticeable and all of this implies US teams will have much more wallet warrior deadweight ruining their games and dragging the stats down.

Tbh, that’s not what I see. I see far more fuji’s in game that click-baits, but that’s purely annecdotal ofc.

736

Fuji is part of Japan so an average player there might be better than what you find among big three, so I’ll only look at US and RU here. Wallet warriors of all three major nations should be equally bad, so it comes down to who has more of them and what % they occupy relative to all players playing said nation.

According to StatShark, T-80UK + E1 have ~50m games played in total, while 11.7 - 12.0 TT tanks such as BVM + 80U + B3 + 90M have ~120m games played in total.
So, around 30% of total games belong to wallet warrior vehicles.

As for the US, Click-Bait + AIM have ~52m games played in total, while 11.7 - 12.00 TT tanks such as M1A2 + SEP + HC + SEPv2 have ~47m games played in total.
So, around 53% of total games belong to wallet warrior vehicles.

That difference is surely noticeable and all of this implies US teams will have much more wallet warrior deadweight ruining their games and dragging the stats down.

737

Problem is that such would apply to Germany too per statshark but such is not the case.

2A4M - 10261591
2 PL - 30032003
~ 40 million games

2A7V 15958266
PSO 13539263
2A6 29150430
2A5 32695346
~ 89 million games

So 44% ish of German games belong to wallet warrior vehicles, yet, Germany sits right next to Russia in WR at 52%.

The US only has 9% more wallet warrior vehicles per this over Germany but a 12% WR deficit.

It would make sense between Russia and the US, but it does not between the US and Germany.

738

That difference of 3% is honestly not that big and could be explained by Germany having slightly better MM luck than US overall, while having negligibly better vehicles/players.

739

The difference of what? 3% is the difference between how many more WW’s the US has vs the WR deficit. That is a very irrelevant comparison.

If such was the case then Germany makes even less sense WR wise as it has a 14% difference between Germany and Russia for under 1% of a WR change while the US, with only a 9% difference has a whopping 12% WR change.

As already stated the US has a WR of 40% currently, Germany sits at 52% and Russia 53%

The US has 53% wallet warriors, Germany 44%, and Russia 30%.

The difference between Russia and Germany is almost less than a 1% difference in WRs while having a 14% difference in wallet warriors, meanwhile the US has a 9% difference to Germany and a 23% difference to Russia.

These are not small percentile variances my guy, “slightly better MM luck” is very much so not a credible answer for a 12% variance.

1 Like
740

It’s very relevant as it’s a pretty known fact wallet warriors are deadweights that directly influence the outcome of games. It should be pretty obvious that, for any given country, if you decrease the amount of wallet warriors in that nation it’s stats will improve.

Better MM luck + marginally better tanks and/or players + 9% less deadweight definitely looks like a credible answer for that 12% variance.

741

Yes I am aware, as already stated due to this Germany should be impacted similarly as hard as the US, such is not the case, it is instead very similar to Russia, a nation a vastly smaller volume of wallet warriors. If Germany was being effected at a similar rate it would have a WR closer to 48%, this is not the case.

Still no, any value over 10% in the case of WRs like this is a massive variance. EG going from 50 to 60% WR is a titanic change and is commonly an example of a meta change, the moment it hits 20% its considered gamebreaking, just like when the BVM arrived and shot Russian WRs into the high 70%s or the legendary arrival of the STRV 122 and it’s god tier hull.

Along with that, as already stated, if this variance was to occur as specified, Germany should also have a larger difference to Russia and such is not currently true, meaning that either the MM is royally shafting the US, the M1 is very much so not what people crack it up to be, or, as so SO many people love to pin as the truth, the entirety of the US player base is universally somehow sucking the bad players out of every other nation.

Although such is ironic given every time the US suddenly spikes back up in WRs nobody says its good players returning to the US or US players ever actually doing well, its exclusively a OP something.

The US is truly schrodinger’s nation, both the worst and best players and the most OP and weakest, amazing.

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742

Everything that you could mention as a problem with the Abrams/Clickbait you could also point out as a problem that the Type 90/Fuji has.

Yet the latter perform much better than the former.

743

Germany had similar 40-50% winrates as the US in the month(s) before the Leo 2 PSO was added though.

744

Well, isn’t it obvious that most new players will start with one of the big three nations ?

I mean, M1A2 has been in the game longer than BVM but it has like almost 3x less games played.
Same for HC, it’s in the game for way longer than 90M but has like 2x less games under it’s belt.

AIM and 80UK are one update apart and they have comparable number of games.
Click-Bait and E1 are two updates apart and CB has 10m+ more games.

To me this looks like US wallet warrior vehicles are much more popular relative to their TT counterparts than RU ones.

CB is an update older than Fuji but has 10m+ more games, so I think it must’ve been your luck.

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745

Other wargames (modern warfare) abandoned national states as playable faction. Its just BlueFor vs RedFor. You select the treaty you’re fighting for and instead of US, Germany and whatnot you pick a combat formation. A historic division, brigade or battlegroup with unique unit rosters. Combat formations from one side always fight together vs. the opposite one. This way all important unit branches are covered. This way it doesn’t matter when one division won’t have the best tanks, another one lacks good air assets and a third one doesn’t have good long range units. They complement each other.

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746

Maybe RU tanks aren’t that oppressive as many people suggested or GER ones are better.
As I said, WRs obviously depend on multiple factors, and I was trying to say how US definitely has more deadweight than other major nations which definitely isn’t doing any favors to the nation itself.

747

It can be justified when people are crying about game mechanics they don’t even understand.
They want things changed for everybody, when the problem is their refusal to learn the game.

Take for example the russian bias thing. It’s almost exclusive dogwater players complaining how the game is rigged.

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748

People get so mad about things like engine smoke cover too calling it cheating through smoke when they don’t understand it’s a real thing. Because they don’t understand mechanics. There should be a requirement to post suggestions, or else a game will become stale and not reach its full potential. Look at the people that got maps cut in half because of flanking

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749

I played at the time. PSO was not the reason why the winrates improved, it was the decrease in the amount of 2PL players (people either finally grinded out the TT, or just stopped playing it).

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