Im more of an aircraft enthusiast than tanks, so I dont know much about it and can just speculate here: Wouldnt the US army upgrade the original armor from the 60s to a more modern standard since the original M1 model? In the game, every abrams has the same armor, besides the turret cheeks getting better with the M1A1. Which leads to autocannons being able to penetrate most of its front or being vulnerable to rounds like 3BM25 or even below. But as I said, it would be fine for me to have the armor as it stands right now, if the tank had something else going fot it, like increased firepower.
Agreed. Anti Air is a daring issue in most nations I think, but with the increased spawncost, its even worse for these two nations. On the other hand, many others do not have a top tier anti air at all, its quite unbalanced.
The radar of the longbow can track several targets at the same time und guide the missiles in, if it would be implemented that way it would be way too strong. But as you said, it could be toned down, the hellfires are still slower than laser guided vikhrs and have less range, so it would still be quite balanced… not to speak of the ability of russian helicopters to fly without a tail, carry six Iglas or maybe even some R73s, if they want to implement that in the long run
DU hull is on SEP3.
M829A2 is the best round in the game, so I don’t need M829A3. No one else has equivalents.
Better air defense might be tied to an AI overhaul, time will tell.
AGM-114L would require the Apache to be BR 13.0 which isn’t in the game yet.
Only hardkill APS tanks and tanks with alleged radar warning would be able to defend against it, thus it should never be added, or added at a BR that can’t face current 11.7s.
IR missiles are defeatable with smoke, and radar missiles are not.
Yes its really good, thing is that it doesnt matter how good a round is, it cant go through the well armored parts of enemy top tier tanks and gets through weakspots just like DM53 or 3BM60 does. I think the discussion about equivalents misses the point of asymetric balancing the game has, as you dont need equivalents as long as sth is still balanced. The most problematic example here is the Pantsir, which also doesnt have an equivalent in other nations, is still in the game and makes it unbalanced. But as the Abrams still struggles in the current meta, giving it a better round could make up for its big weakspots and could lead to a better balancing as a kind of glass cannon with good mobility and worse protection than others. Thats my point.
Fair point, havent thought about that. Still, tanks cant defend against bombs and missiles from planes thrown at them, so theres not that much of a difference. But considering the already dominant CAS, it could be too strong.
I think giving USA Sep V3 (especially considering Germany already have the Leopard 2A7, and Russia having the T-90M) would be a reasonably good idea. Maybe these vehicles should be raised in BR to reduce decompression (perhaps 12.0 or 12.3).
There is no way the Leopard 2A5 should be the same BR as the Leopard 2A7.
Pantsir already has equivalents, as it’s a useless top air that can’t frag CAS players being semi-good. There’s a reason I only died once to Pantsir unintentionally, and why I teach players how to do CAS when they ask.
Also, top tanks shouldn’t inherently be lolpenned… please play 4.0 again and re-learn armor, it’ll make you a better player for 11.7. Of course some will get lolpenned by M829A2 such as Leclerc, Ariete, and the hull of 2A5 as examples, but a race to the bottom isn’t a fun one especially when USA would be the exclusive user of such a round.
For me I haven’t been struggling with Abrams… mostly HSTVL since I’m spading that, but I bring my M1A1 HC out as well.
Partially cause I use tank doctrine and do my best to avoid onion layer 4 where armor is 100% necessary.
@SanguineSerpent
T-14, 2A8, SEP3, and so forth can come in the future.
They are equivalents though… Though T-14 is inferior to both IRL, they’d be equivalents in the context of War Thunder despite T-14 being inferior on paper and in practice.
It objectively doesnt have any. It has the best missile, range, and radar thats not even giving you a warning. No other AA comes even close to that package. And its not helpful or valid for any argumentation to just flex with own skills and experiences, it simply doenst matter and should be avoided.
Again, going against me as a player or my skill doesnt make your point more valid. Anyway, I dont speak about lolpen any tank. M829A3 can specifically defeat older ERA, found on many tanks with soviet origins. And even then, the turret armor still cant be penetrated. Its about the UFP which would be defeated, just as most NATO UFPs and any Abrams UFP can be penned right now by any top tier round.
I think before adding any, newer tank, the current lineup needs to be filled with other light vehicles or SPAA, since the top is already very thin. But he SEPv3 would certainly help the US, although other nations would get things like the T14 in response. Thats far in the future I think and will involve the implementation of hardkill APS.
Pantsir’s missile range is 12km against jet CAS targets last time I tested it, it allegedly increased to 13km.
It’s only 18km against drones and helicopters.
Radar warning doesn’t mean anything in ground cause you’re flying as if you’re always locked anyway.
Its missile isn’t the best, that goes to TOR-M1’s though that one’s a hard 12km range.
I’m not a skilled CAS player, I’m semi-decent, Pantsir’s just easy to avoid.
M829A2 is what defeats older ERA, which it does in War Thunder as well despite the spaced armor issues War Thunder has with APFSDS rounds.
USA top is the largest lineup in the game with the best light tank… Only Sweden comes close, and Germany close behind with the best MBT in the game.
And as San said, hardkill APS has been in the game for a while now.
How does the type of target make a difference? The missile can get to a distance up to 18 km no matter the target. And of course, radar warning is sth to be aware of, and the lack of warning is a bonus for the pantsir. Although the TOR has 42 Gs in comparison to the pantsirs 32 Gs, but its way faster with 1300 m/s, the TOR has 850 m/s. So what the TOR brings to the table is more missile overload, the pantsir has a gun, a faster missile with more range and a better radar. Absolutely not equivalent by objective standards, and not to speak about the ADATS, Otomatic or nations without any top AA like Israel.
The lineup is definetly large, but not very competetive in comparison to sweden, germany or udssr. Dont know what you mean with the best light tank, there are way better tanks like the 2S38 (multirole) or the BMP2M, thats mostly reffered to as the best light in the game. I agree with germany having the best MBT in the game.
You are right. I wanted to clarify that things like trophy or arena should be implemented when introducing tanks like the armata or the SEPv3.
Speed, altitude, and maneuverability.
Going mach 0.91< at over 8000 meters altitude over 13km away, semi-perpendicular to the SPAA, the missile will only hit you once every 3 shots when manually guided at 13km, and never if you do minor adjustments in direction.
Pantsir’s missile loses a large chunk of its maneuverability after 12km and quickly becomes ~18G missile, vs the TOR-M1’s 33 sustained Gs out to 12km.
USA has the 2nd best CAS only behind France, with the 3rd best tanks ahead of China and Soviets, 1st place light tank, and largest lineup.
2S38 is no where near a top light tank, it’s a Soviet Strv 9040C, only good around the 10.0 area. BMP-2M has equivalents in half the tech trees, and again only good around 10.0.
Well yeah, but since trophy system is already in-game, it shouldn’t be too difficult to transfer it to the Sep V3.
Apparently Challenger 3 will have trophy system, and apparently the Leopard 2A8 would have trophy system too.
The mantlet weakspot isn’t as large as on many other vehicles, the UFP is resistant against any and all APFSDS and the turret cheeks are immune to DM53 at point blank range.
Second best ammo at 11.7, if you are unable to score kills with the immense level of firepower these M1’s have, the issue lies squarely with you as a player.
And yet, nations like Israel, Britain, Italy, France, Japan and China all seem to play offensively just fine, even whilst their MBT’s largely have worse armour protection and often worse survivability too.
The turret ring should be highlighted more, but I get your point.
You are excluding the BVM (or T-80UK), T-90M, and the Leopards / Strv 122s here.
You also do not take into account other munitions, like 120/125mm HE, in which case the UFP and roof would be green.
It would probably be best if you do 125mm HE for all MBTs, and compare them.
BVM is significantly weaker than T-80U in armor. T-90M is the only Soviet tank as armored as 2A7V.
However, T-90M is also the slowest of them, with the slowest reload and “one of the worst APFSDS rounds”. So while T-90M is rather superior to T-80BVM, it still has flaws compared to the competition and IMO the Abrams and ZTZ-99A are superior to the T-90M which itself is superior to the T-80UK which itself I find superior to T-80BVM.
