Here’s a list off all the copy paste vehicles in this tech tree:
T-34-85,
IS-2
SU-100
BMP-1P
T-54
IS-3
T-10A
ZSU-57
2S1
BMP-2
T-55A
T-55AM
T-10M
ZSU-23 x 3
Gepard 1A2
T-64B
Shturm-S
T-64BV x 4
BMP-3
Leopard 1A5
T-72M1
Strela-10
Tunguska
Leopard 2A4
T-80UD x 2
T-80BV (same as B esentailly) x 2
9K330
T-64BM (the same as B esentially) x 3
Buddy, you want me to list like 10 vehicles? No thanks, you won’t change my mind with “it’s different variants” or “it’s indigenous designs”, it’s the same bro.
There are plenty of countries or unions that can be added when looking at their content in an unbiased manner.
Ukraine is arguably one such country, because of their ridiculously good ground potential.
Aviation leaves quite a bit to be desired and there are superior options to Ukraine, but I assure you that pride often times isn’t really applicable, especially when the voter isn’t connected to the country in question.
I do not support Ukraine nor hate it, even though I live next to the country. It’s still copy paste, there’s maybe 4 or 5 actual from scratch vehicles, not some sort of BMP with a BMD hull
You mean ukrainians putting soviet turrets on slightly altered soviet hulls? Yeah buddy, totally not copy paste. And that firefly remark. Compare the hull to other shermans, it’s completely different and is only 1 tank in an entire tech tree. Not the whole tech tree, next!
Soviet turrets like the locally developed KASKET or 120mm carrying turrets?
Regardless of whether the components existed beforehand, if they are put together in a configuration that hasn’t been seen before then it’s unique. This is per definition the truth.
Do Ukrainian engines, armaments, armours, transmissions and whole damn turrets mean nothing to you?
That just smells like selective bias.
And whether or not the Firefly is the only modification of a foreign vehicle in the tree (which it isn’t), what does it matter? It’s performance has been objectively and significantly altered, just like it is the case for Ukrainian vehicles.
Like it or not, Ukrainian tanks are unique because of these facts and because of the amount of these unique vehicles that can be added to Ukraine it would make for a (relatively) plausible tree.
And honestly, you don’t need to be a supporter of the tree to recognize it’s uniqueness either, but you do neither of these things.
Way to slander the engineers behind their products…
With MiG-29 and Su-27 modernizations, they’re 1-off, sure, but it’s much like the numbers of the T-84. They add a lot to the aircraft, and they’re just as numerous as aircraft like the Su-25T/TM or the Russian MiG-29SMT.
So now we are backtracking on previous statements?
Things are looking bleak for your argument…
Anyhow, namecalling is also quite revealing.
I am by no means a “ukraineboo”, I am simply calling out what is clearly wrong.
Yes, I do think Ukraine should be an independent tree, but I have also stated that I don’t think it is the best option to be the next independent tree. In fact, in regards to potential trees that I look positively towards this would be on the lower end.