BTR-4 (BAU 23x2 module)
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Cool tanks🙃, wish we could see more Ukrainan tanks in the game.
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It never has. The US is a melting pot. The only people you’d be speaking of is the Natives. But what does that have to do with Ukraine? You’re all comparing corns to apples. It’s insane imo. As a person who’s from the melting pot. No one ethnicity can describe a state. Demographics change overtime, it’s stupid to especially hear.
If a people don’t wanna be associated with the US that’s fine. Things change. That’s life. Hawaiians are unique. But they are still apart of the Union. If they broke off and made their own stuff. I wouldn’t mind acknowledging their uniqueness. Idc. It’s really not that big of a deal for me. If it’s a big deal for you, you’d lack something called “real life issues”.
I find nowadays too many people lack a grip, and ability to discern. It’s disheartening.
Woah. How long is that thing? Because that would determine (at least its pressure threshold) which ammunition would be more fitting to fire. If it’s lower velocity M829A2 is prob better.
Awesome. I want a Thicc T-64 tbh.
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120mm gun produced by Ukraine is KBM-2, it’s L/50 and should be capable of firing rounds such as DM53 and alikes.
Probably will be lower velocity than that of Rh120 L/55, but still better than fired from L/44.
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The T64 was designed by a man born into the Russian empire, designed and built in the Kharkiv plant in the UKRSSR, the T64 is not a Ukrainian tank nor was it’s designed based on anything specifically because of Ukraine. The T80UD was designed in the Kharkiv plant of Ukraine as well, I’m still researching this a bit more currently so anybody who knows more please speak up as well, but I’ve found out so far that the modification of the T80U into the UD was led by a man named Nikolay A. Shomin, I’m looking for more info on him and his origins as well as what led to the creation of the UD over the U to see if it’s a Ukrainian led effort or just an order from the soviet socialist leaders.
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I know that designers of said vehicles are not Ukrainians or of Ukrainian origins.
The question is which country has developed the said tank.
You probably know a guy named Kurt Tank. A German-born man who was an aeronautical engineer who at first worked at Focke-Wulf and after the war in Argentina and India.
He was the one to take part in development of Fw 190, Ta 152 and Fw 200 during WW2.
German planes, innit?
However, after WW2, he worked on foreign projects, such as IAe 33, which he designed under FMA for Argentinians, thus aircraft is Argentinian. Later on he designed HF-24, an aircraft produced by HAL for Indian airforce, thus the aircraft in Indian, right?
I perfectly know that there was no independent state within USSR, but if we are so focused on which country produced and operated (even though there was no Ukrainian SSR army, only colective Soviet) the said vehicle (because the game is built around which country operated/constructed/modified the said vehicle sans taking into account specific engineers), Ukraine should’ve been defined as such in WT, or, at very least, Ukrainian SSR. But again, in Soviet tt, everything is collectively Soviet due to aforementioned reasons.
Designers of vehicles are also different subject. KF-41 was developed by German engineers for export, however the only country to operate it was (and is?) Hungary. Hungary is well established within Italian TT, and has a right to claim it as Hungarian vehicle, not German, because it is also maintained in Hungary.
The same can be said about any export vehicle in fact. Japanese F-4EJ is American-made and designed aircraft, but it was in use of Japanese airforce, thus the plane is Japanese. AFAIK it also used Japanese systems that were produced under licence, and further modifications also make it Japanese (F-4EJ Kai), even though some systems were designed by Americans, and were probably adapted with the assistance of American engineers.
The great difference, again, is the fact that Soviet union has had everything in collective ownership, and defining Ukrainian SSR is right from game perspective because USSR is union of republics (even though non-independent) but wrong from real world perspective, unless we are going very deep into who required the tank, which personel was engaged in creation of the said tank etc.
Common WT player doesn’t care which engineer specifically designed the tank, but cares a little bit more about which country operated/produced it, and saying Ukrainian SSR, to most extent, will be right.
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That’s entirely correct, I honestly understand the flaw in my thinking from that point on. I would like to go on to say though that from my short period of research from posting my comment in reply to your earlier one that I have found the KMDB plant (Kharkiv Morozov) to have been a designer and producer of many many more (traditionally) Russian vehicles than I ever thought before, such as having a huge hand in development of the T-34-85 and even all the way back to designing prototypes for the BT series of tanks.
They also had a hand in designing the T-44 up to the T-84 (which interestingly enough is depending on what source you go to just a T80UD and another source might tell you it’s a T80BE1 which is displayed in war thunder improperly as the Chinese event vehicle: T80UD/DU1, it’s supposed to have a slightly different turret shape with a rolled/welded turret instead of the normal UD’s Cast turret.) The T-84 is a separate tank from the T-84 BM Oplot-T.
and at this point I’m not arguing I’m just info dumping, but also something interesting I found was that the T80UD is an amalgamation of several different USSR orders and even different tanks altogether just slapped together. it has the turret of the Object 746, the Hull of the Object 219 (a base T80 hull from the LKZ plant and design bureau,) and the 6-TD-1 engine: the combination of these is the Object 748B or the ‘traditional’ T-80UD. The reason the 6-TD-1 engine was used is a bit confusing for me from the mixed answers I’m getting from translated Russian sources and things like that, evidently a main pusher for the Gas Turbine engine in the T-80Us died and the SSR lost a lot of reasoning for it since it was (relatively) reliable to run but too expensive for their tastes. And other sources state that the 6-TD-1 engine was left over from some other failed project and they just wanted a tank to use them up.
Anyway, rant over, I’m not disproving anything or such and I actually agree with you on those points, just thought my above findings were interesting and kinda cool.
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That’s also an interesting subject. IIRC, there is a total of 3 “T-80” models for Pakistan.
The one we have in the game is the “first” T-80UD modified with the use of available Soviet systems remaining from collapse of USSR and some rather minor changes, like lack of IR searchlight as it was replaced by proper thermals of Ukrainian origin.
The “second” one would be a more proper Ukrainian-designed variant as it was the same T-80UD hull but this time with welded T-84 turret instead, and 6TD-2 instead of 6TD-1 (might be wrong on this bit though). These were still using Soviet leftovers, like Kontakt-5 ERA and some internal systems, but was also supposed to use Pakistani-produced guns and munitions, like locally-designed APFSDS.
The “third” one is Oplot-P that was designed and offered specifically to Pakistan, and that one is really a Ukrainian-designed option that was never adopted by Pakistan because Chinese and local developments were more reasonable.
@TPS_Hydra knows more on the subject of Pakistani T-80s, as mine is a short summary from what I remember.
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Ah, the oplot will be the next copy and paste victim…
Not really. Oplots also have some differences, some are minor, some are big enough to define them at different br.
Pakistani Oplot has different ERA layout (hull sides used only Nizh, no Duplet) as per suggestion, and IIRC some different systems, probably different round as Pakistan also produced their own models of APFSDS.
Malaysian Oplot is also somewhat different. Different tracks won’t make a great difference, but something like armor and rounds may also be factors to differentiate from other models (if Malaysia becomes sub-tree within Japanese tt, there would be another option for an Oplot for lower br per systems included/excluded).
And there would be like 5 Ukrainian-specific variants left for both lower and higher brs, so yeah, kind of copy paste slop material, but at least different to Leo2 one.
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Pakistan operates two main sub-variants of the T-80UD, the T-80UD 478DU1 we’ve got in-game (which is correctly designated) and the the T-80UD 478BE which isn’t present in-game. The 478DU1 is basically a Soviet T-80UD with some components replaced with locally produced Ukrainian parts like the Buran-Catherine E thermal imager (that’s why the T-80UD/DU1 we’ve got in-game has thermals) and a new tank gun, that being the KBA-3 (with other small changes as well).
The T-80UD 478BE is the one with the welded turret, the first tank alongside the T-80UD 478BK to receive the welded turret in Ukraine (think of the 478BE as a predecessor to the T-84). Some credible reports have also stated that some Pakistani T-80s (both 478DU1 and 478BE) have been equipped with the 6TD-2E engine, the same one as found on the BM Oplot-T also with the addition of a improved transmission, probably the same as found on the BM Oplot-T as well.
Pakistan themselves [official] have stated that vehicles like the T-80UD have been upgraded with said 6TD-2E engine in service, numbers most likely limited however - sourced from Ukraine
Clear image of the T-80UD 478BE with its welded turret, you can tell the difference between the T-80UD 478DU1/BE by its smoke grenades placement
Many people confuse the T-80UD 478DU1 and T-80UD 478BE and I do not blame them, the 478DU1 is the one with the cast turret (same as the base T-80UD) and the 478BE is the one with the welded turret.
I don’t know as much about the T-84 BM Oplot-P when compared to the T-80UD in-service with Pakistan but from my understanding it was only trialed (meets the requirements for War Thunder) and was a variant specifically designed for Pakistan (unique somewhat).
T-84 BM Oplot-P in Ukraine, may be wrong but I’m 70% sure this is indeed a image of the Oplot-P
Pakistan can also receive two more variants of the T-80UD, that being the T-80UD 478B (standard T-80UD, only a incredibly small amount shipped to Pakistan from Ukraine) and the more unique T-80UD 478DU, a T-80UD basically with the suspension of the T-64, only trialed - also heard it had a improved reverse speed of around 11km/h.
Note: the suspension of the T-80UD 478DU is only a copy/replica of the T-64, it doesn’t actually use the exact same suspension, it’s entirely unique to the 478DU because of this.
Last thing, Pakistan has also began upgrading their fleet of T-80UDs with locally produced parts like new tank guns (125mm Smooth Bore Chrome Plated Autofrettaged, long ass name) and other minor changes - they do also produce domestic munition for their tanks as well.
The first Ukrainian MBT was technically the T-80UD/DU1 we got in-game, not the BM Oplot-T (depending on what you mean by Ukrainian)
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Well, copy paste is welcome as long as the vehicle is somewhat unique (different engine, armor, cannon etc.)
Thank you for the information, you definitely know a lot more than what I could easily find out. This actually kicked off my interest in these tanks and their development and where they are now or what they led to, have a good day and thank you @Savage-SRC as well for the conversation.
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