Having followed the discussion, I can say that there are some of us:
People who really want a separate Ukrainian tree.
People who agree with Ukrainian tanks (1-2 units), but believe that Ukraine should be in the USSR tree.
People who do not want Ukrainian tanks because they think they are copy-pastes.
people who just came to see what was there and quickly ran away when they got scared.
The topic of Ukraine’s contribution to Soviet tank building is very controversial. Some argue that everything that existed during the Soviet Union was Soviet or Russian. Others say that Ukraine existed and that everything that happened on the territory of Ukraine was Ukrainian.
Everyone has the right to their own opinion. Personally, I would like to see a separate Ukrainian tree because:
The proposed equipment was manufactured or modernized in Ukraine. Ukraine is now an independent country. And the amount of its vehicles is enough for a separate tree. Given that Israel has been added to the game, we can conclude that the developers are ready to introduce this kind of tree. And now this tree is being developed and new vehicles are being added.
The USSR no longer exists. The developers are adding new modern vehicles by linking them to a non-existent country. This is not logical. Therefore, for the game to develop further, it is necessary to change the very essence of the division of nations.
The USSR tree is already full. If we want to add other countries to the USSR tree (which has turned into Russia), there is not enough space for modern Russia.
What is proposed to be added (except for the 4th rank) is not a copycat. The vehicles are equipped with different engines, different shells, different armor, and different looks. It will have a different BR and will be played differently. And those who want only the most unique tanks just need to realize that they have already run out.
And those people who do not respect Ukrainians and claim that Ukraine did not exist in Soviet times, but only a large Russia. They should find a map of the Soviet Union and look for Russia and Ukraine. Of course, if you talk about a country with such disrespect, it will be defended with the same disrespect.
As i said earlier most of purposed tech tree in first post is majority copy of USSR and other nations without modifications like T-54s, IS heavy tanks and etc. Also, it added vehicles of other nations for filler like Leo 2a6 of Germany and Challenger of UK So it’s not enough to be a full tech tree.
Also, just because USSR no longer exist it doesn’t mean it should not receive any new vehicles.
Tech tree isn’t a glass of water or cup of tea to get filled. All of excess vehicles can be in group.
Political maps matter less. Sweden already hosts vehicles from Finland. Does that mean Finland is part of Sweden? Or Hungarian vehicles in Italy make Hungary a puppet of Italy?
Almost all of argument in favor of adding Ukraine is political and is about recent war. You want to make things political, and it doesn’t serve game and players good. Political games die fast.
These are not copies. Copies are when the same tank is repeated twice without change. The German BMP-1 is a copy because nothing was changed in it. And the T-64BM is more different from the T-64BV than the Leopard 2A4 is from the Strv 121. There is no problem with this at all, except for your bias. As for the IS-2 and T-34, Yontzee has already said that he will recycle the tree by deleting these tanks. But of course you don’t know that. It’s written just above…
This once again confirms that you don’t read the proposal at all. You just write your opinion right away. Because there is no Challenger in the proposal.
Because Finland does not have as many vehicles as Ukraine. How many armored car factories does Finland have? I can only remember the Patria Group, but it’s not even a factory. Ukraine has three plants. And each of them produced and modernized armored vehicles and sometimes tanks.
As for Hungary, an offer with a Hungarian tree can also be found on the forum.
I can say the same about those who are against the Ukrainian tree. How about that?
Problem is your bias. I don’t have any bias on any nations in game. T-34-85, T-44, IS-2/4, T-10A/M, T54s, T55A, BMP-2 and so much more all are exact copies of tech tree vehicles in Soviet. Leopard 2a6 is the top signature tank of Germany. If you delete all copies from this tech tree its unique vehicles will be a handful.
No this confirms you didn’t read anything in this topic and just wrote your opinion without a second thinking due to bias toward Ukraine. All of the aid vehicles are purposed by players in replies to be added to this tree including Challenger 2.
If you cut copy vehicles and aid vehicles from purposed tree you won’t find much to add.
I’m not Ukrainian nor Russian. i don’t hold any grudge against either country. I’m playing this game for 5 years and have almost full ground tree in 3 nations and non-complete in others. I don’t play this game to defeat enemies of my country. I play this game because I enjoy its overall quality which is unrivaled.
If you want to defeat your country’s enemies why no join their armed forces and fight war in real battlefield? Leave politics out of this forum and this game.
If we remove the T-34-85, T-44, IS-2/3, SU-100 T-10A/M, T54s, T55A, BMP-2, T64-A, ZSU-57-2, 2S1, 2S3, and all 3 leopards from the 99 proposed vehicles, we will be left with 82 vehicles. This is more than is needed for a nation starting from the 5th-6th rank. This is not even mentioning the things that were mentioned in the discussion but not added to the tree. And the fact that people here suggested that Challenger should be added to the tree is just a discussion, it does not mean that this tank should be in the tree.
And by the way, I am neither Ukrainian nor Russian. So don’t put any labels on me.
Soviet Union doesn’t need to be finished here. It can benefit from Ukraine vehicles and be a bigger tree especially for those who already researched Soviet tree without needs to research more copy vehicles first. Much like Indian T-90 that went into UK tree just because in past it was subject of British empire Ukraine vehicles should go to Soviet because in past it was part of Soviet Union.
No one is forcing you to play the Ukrainian tree. If you want to play, you do, if you don’t want to play your favorite Russian tree. I have no problem with the British T-90. Only political people have such problems. I would gladly combine it with a NATO tank. It’s fun, it’s entertaining. And by the way, India could also have its own separate tree…
No one forcing to play isn’t a good argument. If you don’t have problem with Indian T-90 in UK tree then you shouldn’t have problem with Ukraine vehicles to be in USSR because only political people have such problems.
T-90 have already been added and I have no influence on this. I have already said that India deserves its own tree. If we’re talking about Ukraine, I’m in favor of adding military vehicles to the game, and if possible, it would be right to add it to a separate tree. Just like India…
Any new vehicles, updates or information?
Except for the politics…
Perhaps I was wrong and politics is inherent to this tree, even a small bit, but wow.
Kind of, but they may not be necessary relevant to War Thunder gameplay mechanics.
Like AFU soon will receive FV107 Scimitar Mk.2 and it’s potential addition to the tree.
Ukraine also now has trophy Mi-8 AMTSh helicopter which can be potential premium.
Ukraine can be a great addition for post-Soviet Union Eastern Europe vehicles. By unlocking certain tier of other tech trees has already been seen in Israel, and Soviet tech tree has already been very big. (or by adding a Ukranian army branch outside of the Soviet-Russian army for Soviet tech tree?)
Recently the AFU got hold of some Belgian AIFV-B-C25s, they don’t differ much from the standard YPR-765 PRIs visually except the differing placement of the smoke dispensers. It is armed with the Oerlikon KBA, protected by aluminium, weighs ~14 tons and is powered by 270hp engine, it could act as a mid tier SPAA or add the role of something like the Type 87 RCV if it gets later darts.
Many people here argue that Ukrainian TT should be inside soviet tt or independent.
Theres lots of reasons why people think either way but IMO it should go to Soviet TT for more logical reasons such as: Ukraine has soviet past that has affected it and gave it abilities to make such tanks that people know as Ukrainian, and the fact Ukrainian modifications are based of soviet tanks.
Those two are in my opinion why Ukraine should go to USSR in WT, Russia literally has these same two arguments and it does go to USSR, if Ukrainian TT would exist on its own it would be same as splitting an Union of its allies (thats literally what it looks like rn).
Now of less political reasons. (IMO politics shouldnt exist in WT, a literal game without connection to politics, players take it too serious to political level)
Some may argue that USSR is long gone. And yes while thats true, thats not the case in WT, I can say more than that, many countries present in WT are long gone, does that mean that we should just take and dump WW2 tanks of USSR, Germany, Italy, Japan into other tech trees? (The answer is no)
Another argument for Ukraine to be in USSR TT is the fact all of its currently produced/modernised tanks take it’s origin from soviet designs up to this day. It’s more of soviet tank design school than it’s own. Ukrainian tank plant coupled with two Russians ones were the ones to make soviet designs we know (and some call outdated) this day.
Splitting a tech tree based of it’s tank plants would be as same unlogical as if splitting a TT of vehicles made by country that doesn’t exist today.
Considering how much of arguments this topic has caused, I less and less believe that Gaijin will ever say Yes to Ukrainian TT being added at all, thanks to all the arguments being held.
It would be great if Yontzee could add Blastertitan’s suggestion to the first post about how the Ukrainian sub-tree could look like. I think it would solve all the problems. It could be similar to folders. When you reach the 5-6th rank of the USSR, you could choose to go further, get tanks from Russia or Ukraine. I think this would satisfy all the participants in the discussion.
Most of those people with arguments for “adding Ukraine into Soviet tree” just want to add some crippled and cut down version of AFU forces. “Just add a few premiums for soviets and be done with it”.
You can answer some simple yes/no questions in the meantime:
Do you want to add 70+ Ukrainian ground vehicles from proposal into existing soviet tree?
Do you want Leopards, Challengers, Abrams, Gepards, Bradleys and other extensively used western vehicles added to soviet tree?
If at least one of your answers is “no”, then you want some “funny” version of Ukrainian TT that has nothing to do with current reality established in the last two years.
Moreover, poll at the start of the topic completely contradicts your statement about controversial matter, as majority of participants (69% vs 31%) want Ukraine in the game as separate independent tree.
They don’t have to add every single vehicle no, only the ones that are needed and can fill a gap or added as a new top of the line vehicle, as for western vehicles, the modified ones would be fine as they’re unique such as the Leopard 2A4 with Kontakt-1.
Also you keep bringing up geopolitics, none of that is relevant for War Thunder.
See, and now you started bargaining about the amount of vehicles added to try and justify adding crippled down version of Ukrainian TT to soviets. That only proves my point.
All listed vehicles will feel comfortable in the separate independent tree. Thank you very much.
