Turkish Ground Forces Tech Tree

[Yontzee]

Is there plans for the armed forces to procure the Kaplan-MT? I saw there was rumors about the Turkish Army looking into getting a few.

As I said earlier, I know they’re adopting the Kaplan-10 ATGM Carrier and maybe some of the APC’s but I’m wondering what other platforms they could adopt considering the Kaplan is a pretty modular chassis.

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@lLiberté

It kind of is, Land Forces Command tends to not properly designate vehicles, like M60T1 still commonly referred as M60T, but this package is FNSS’ ACV-15 Life Extension Program which is dubbed as ACV-15T1.

Also, this answered that question (along with what you said) lol:

FNSS - ACV-15T1 CAPABILITY ENHANCEMENT & LIFE EXTENSION PROGRAM

There’s also an ATGM version of the ACV as well.

Looks to be the OMTAS & L/UMTAS missiles (and a coaxial 7.62mm machine gun) I’m assuming which is the same as the Kaplan-10.

[ByEmirReyiz]

@Yontzee

Is there plans for the armed forces to procure the Kaplan-MT? I saw there was rumors about the Turkish Army looking into getting a few.

Tracked light vehicles with cannons do not fit the Turkish Armored Doctrine, so I believe Kaplan MT will not be included in our inventory for the forseeable future.

Exports are always an option though, at the moment the program is driven by Indonesian interest completely.

@Yontzee

As I said earlier, I know they’re adopting the Kaplan-10 ATGM Carrier and maybe some of the APC’s but I’m wondering what other platforms they could adopt considering the Kaplan is a pretty modular chassis.

Correct, Kaplan-10 STA (ATGM Carrier) is being rapidly produced and delivered to the army to replace the aging M113 TOW carriers, which are a crucial part of our Armored Forces.

For other uses of Kaplan platform, we have no clue. For wheeled IFVs they had picked Altuğ 8x8 ZMA and for wheeled APCs they picked PARS ALPHA which quite surprised us. (Another thing to include, along with the 8x8 APC, PARS ALPHA’s 8x8 ATGM carrier and 8x8 engineering/mobile maintenance vehicle variants are also the part of the deal.) I believe trials for tracked vehicles progress way slower and in the end they might still go for another round of M113 modernizations instead.

@Yontzee

Looks to be the OMTAS & L/UMTAS missiles (and a coaxial 7.62mm machine gun) I’m assuming which is the same as the Kaplan-10.

Along with those, surprisingly they had integrated KORNET-E on the turret system as well. And yeah, same turret as Kaplan-10 STA and PARS 4x4 STA.

[Miraz05]

@ByEmirReyiz

Tracked light vehicles with cannons do not fit the Turkish Armored Doctrine, so I believe Kaplan MT will not be included in our inventory for the forseeable future.

Is Tulpar meant for export as well. Turkey isn’t going to use it for itself?

[ByEmirReyiz]

@Miraz05

Is Tulpar meant for export as well. Turkey isn’t going to use it for itself?

Tulpar chassis can be used for many roles, but it’s 105mm or 120mm cannon variants will not be used I am assuming.

[lLiberté]

@Yontzee

As I said earlier, I know they’re adopting the Kaplan-10 ATGM Carrier and maybe some of the APC’s but I’m wondering what other platforms they could adopt considering the Kaplan is a pretty modular chassis.

As you’ve stated Kaplan-10 is in service in Turkish Armed Forces under the name of KAPLAN STA (STA stands for Silah Taşıyıcı Araç, literally means Weapon Carrier Vehicle). Currently there is three version of KAPLAN STA in service;

• KAPLAN STA, UKTK (ARCT) Turret, KORNET-E Missile
• KAPLAN STA, UKTK (ARCT) Turret, OMTAS Missile
• KAPLAN KMC, KMC/TFSS/YALMAN Turret, CİRİT Rocket, OMTAS & L-UMTAS & UMTAS Missiles

There is another variant that is being still under development:

• KAPLAN KMC-U, KMC-U Turret, CİRİT Rocket, OMTAS & L-UMTAS & UMTAS & UMTAS-GM Blok-1 IIR & UMTAS-GM Blok-1 YAL Missiles (As Well As Under Development Missiles Such As: OMTAS-GM, L-UMTAS-GM, UMTAS-GM Blok-2 CCD/IIR)

KAPLAN STA, OMTAS

KAPLAN STA, KORNET-E

KAPLAN KMC, CİRİT & OMTAS & L-UMTAS & UMTAS

KAPLAN KMC-U, CİRİT & OMTAS & L-UMTAS & UMTAS & UMTAS-GM Blok-1 IIR & UMTAS-GM Blok-1 YAL

Nomenclature:

• STA = Silah Taşıyıcı Araç, Weapon Carrier Vehicle
• UKTK = Uzaktan Komutalı Tanksavar Kulesi, ARCT = Anti-Tank Remote Controlled Turret
• KMC = Kaideye Monteli CİRİT, Pedestal Mounted CİRİT^{* KMC, TFFS, YALMAN All Refers to Same Turret System}
• TFFS = Taktik Füze Fırlatma Sistemi, Tactical Missle Launch System^{* KMC, TFFS, YALMAN All Refers to Same Turret System}
• KMC-U = Kaideye Monteli CİRİT - U, Pedestal Mounted CİRİT - L ^{* “U” is Probably Stand For Uzun, Referring to Long Range}
• OMTAS = Orta Menzilli Tanksavar Sistemi, Medium Range Anti-Tank System
• UMTAS = Uzun Menzilli Tanksavar Sistemi, Long Range Anti-Tank System
• L-UMTAS = Lazer - Uzun Menzilli Tanksavar Sistemi, Laser - Long Range Anti-Tank System
• UMTAS-GM Blok-1 IIR = Uzun Menzilli Tanksavar Sistemi-Genişletilmiş Blok-1 Menzil Kızılötesi Görüntüleyici Arayıcı, Long Range Anti-Tank System-Extended Range Block-1 Imaging Infra-Red
• UMTAS-GM Blok-1 YAL = Uzun Menzilli Tanksavar Sistemi-Genişletilmiş Menzil Blok-1 Yarı Aktif Lazer, Long Range Anti-Tank System-Extended Range Block-1 Semi-Active Laser Seeker
• UMTAS-GM Blok-2 CCD&IIR = Uzun Menzilli Tanksavar Sistemi-Genişletilmiş Blok-2 Menzil Yük Bağlaşımlı/Kızılötesi Görüntüleyici Arayıcı, Long Range Anti-Tank System-Extended Range Block-2 CCD/IIR

@ByEmirReyiz explained rest already, so props to him

[lLiberté]

aaa

@Yontzee

Thanks man! Yeah I’m just waiting for them to be approved, probably like a month or so.

It is taking unusually long recently.

@Yontzee

I did list the SARP turrets along with the other name it is associated with. I thought that was strange when I was making the suggestion, I wasn’t familiar with SARP at the time.

Eh it is SARP designation standardisation came very recently so no worries mate.

@Yontzee

Is there plans for the armed forces to procure the Kaplan-MT? I saw there was rumors about the Turkish Army looking into getting a few.

It seems highly unlikely Turkish Armed Forces would acquire Kaplan or Tulpar in Light Tank/Fire Support Configuration. I remember listening tank crews even commanders were highly sceptical against such platforms as Fire Support Vehicles even favouring M48 & M60 over them.

@Miraz05

Is Tulpar meant for export as well. Turkey isn’t going to use it for itself?

Not necessarily just for export but for the time being there is no orders. YN-HZA (Yeni Nesil Hafif Zırhlı Araçlar/New Generation Light Armored Vehicles ) projects first phase just awarded to FNSS & BMC. If I remember correctly, tracked vehicles will be awarded in Phase 2. Considering there is no BMC tracked vehicle this might take quite while though.

[Yontzee]

@lLiberté

It seems highly unlikely Turkish Armed Forces would acquire Kaplan or Tulpar in Light Tank/Fire Support Configuration. I remember listening tank crews even commanders were highly sceptical against such platforms as Fire Support Vehicles even favouring M48 & M60 over them.

I’m kind of surprised they didn’t adopt the Kaplan-20/Kaplan-30/Kaplan APC as a replacement for the ACV-15/ACV-15T1. I really like the concept of the ACV-15T1 but realistically is a very vulnerable platform without several other support vehicles that take lead. I mean the new 8x8 IFV fills the role well and they have so many ACV-15’s so it’s cost effective but they need to at least incorporate a basic/light form of hard-kill APS/EW to the vehicles. They could’ve mounted the SARP 100/25 onto the Kaplan APC even.
As for the Kaplan-MT, that makes sense for it not being in doctrine. There’s no point for it considering the terrain the Turkish Army operates in is accessible for the M60T/Leopard 2A4T1/Altay T1 tanks and the areas they can’t operate it is relegated to infantry anyways with limited access to vehicles even like the ACV-15T1.

Kaplan APC

Kaplan-20 IFV

Kaplan-30 IFV

• On a side note, these Kaplan’s look sharp. Tulpar’s are pretty sick too.

Tulpar HIFV w/ Mızrak-U Combat Module

[lLiberté]

@Yontzee

I’m kind of surprised they didn’t adopt the Kaplan-20/Kaplan-30/Kaplan APC as a replacement for the ACV-15/ACV-15T1

Replacement of ACV-15 is long overdue at this point, ACV-15T1 is merely a stopgap solution until procurement of new platform starts.

@Yontzee

it’s cost effective but they need to at least incorporate a basic/light form of hard-kill APS/EW to the vehicles.

Most definitely, there has been few attempts to incorporate Active Protection Systems to tracked vehicles in the past but those stays as mere attempts. For future though, ASELSAN is developing a lighter active protection solution called AKKOR KAMA mainly designed for lighter tracked vehicles. Though we do not know if those would be incorporated in new generation tracked vehicles. For the wheeled vehicles though, SARP 100/35 equipped IFV variants is mostly likely will have AKKOR on them as SARP 100/35 comes with AKKOR.

Let me share some of APC/IFVs fitted with Active Protection Systems:

Arma 6x6 AKKOR

Kaplan Light Tank (3105) İDEF 2019 Prototype, AKKOR PULAT

Arma 8x8, AKKOR

ALTUĞ 8x8, AKKOR

ASELSAN AKKOR KAMA

@Yontzee

As for the Kaplan-MT, that makes sense for it not being in doctrine

Well actually Land Forces Command favours direct fire support as we’ve seen how M60A3 were used in close quarter. Problem is Command’s ideas are about lighter platforms are quite entrenched. We’ll see if it’ll in any time soon, that being said Command decided to switch from 25mm auto-cannon to 35mm auto-cannon as primary caliber for IFVs, so it is not impossible.

@Yontzee

Kaplan-20 IFV

Kaplan-30 IFV

As far as I know both Kaplan-20 and Kaplan-30 are discontinued. There is only three Kaplan Platforms left; Kaplan-10, Kaplan APC, Kaplan Light Tank.

@Yontzee

• On a side note, these Kaplan’s look sharp. Tulpar’s are pretty sick too.

I prefer Tulpar myself, especially the one with SARP 100/35

[Yontzee]

So many platforms I can’t keep up xD it’s pretty cool as it offers a LOT of options for the tree.

@lLiberté

Well actually Land Forces Command favours direct fire support as we’ve seen how M60A3 were used in close quarter. Problem is Command’s ideas are about lighter platforms are quite entrenched.

Absolutely, I was just saying that they probably don’t need to use the Kaplan-MT (at least not yet) due to not having many limitations with terrain. Having heavier, more survivable armor is preferred most likely in those CQB situations. I personally think the Kaplan-MT is sharp and if they could lighten it further, would make a solid airborne vehicle if the Turkish Army decided to focus more on Airborne doctrine.

[lLiberté]

@Yontzee

if the Turkish Army decided to focus more on Airborne doctrine.

I can’t see that happening. Though in 2024 Amphibious Corps under Turkish Naval Forces established, so we might see more mobile vehicles both tracked and tactical wheeled for marines.

Currently Marines/Naval Amphibious Commandos has small mechanised force ZAHA being backbone with 27 units and several M48A5T2s. That being said, Corps were established very recently and those order number for probably for brigade level so we might see more acquisition in the future. Also I remember reading that M48A5T2s are belongs to Army and leased to Marines for exercises but cannot say for sure. In Corps level, we might see more suitable vehicles for landings such as Kaplan or Tulpar for tracked vehicles and amphibious tracked vehicles such as Arma. It all speculation at this point.

Currently there is few vehicles with amphibious capabilities excluding ZAHA which is already a purpose built vehicle. It should be noted some of those vehicles more capable in amphibious operations than the other.

Second Generation Arma 8x8 During Amphibious Tests in Kazakhstan Armed with SARP 100/25

PARS İZCİ 6x6

PARS 4x4

Tulpar-S

ZPTP Tracked Platform

KAPLAN-10

[Arslan_San]

The reason I continue to play War Thunder is the hope that the Turkish tech tree will come. I hope it will come soon.

[lLiberté]

Turkish Ground Forces Tech Tree

Since the last update of our Turkish Ground Forces Tech Tree project, there has been some developments in acquisition projects Turkish Armed Forces. With the recent developments we’ve updated the tech tree to be more fitting. Some vehicles moved from Research Section while some moved to Premium Section. We’ve decided to use Turkish designations and abbreviation for vehicles and/or turret systems. Also some vehicles designations are changed with official ones from Turkish Armed Forces and/or manufacturer.

If a vehicles does not have an official designation, like Tulpar with Hitfact Mk.II Turret; or different designation for different turret systems, ZMA-15 with Dragar and EWS turret both knows as ZMA-15, we simply refer those vehicle by Vehicle Name + (Turret System).

So let me present changes in lates iteration of our Turkish Ground Forces Tech Tree

Designation Changes

• We’ve decided to use Turkish abbreviation and designations for vehicles. This included not only name of base vehicle but also designation of Turkish Armed Forces as well as names of sub-system used on the vehicle.
• Vehicles without any official designation still keeps their names with same formula: Vehicles Name + (Turret System)

Vehicle Placement Changes

• As Next Generation Armored Vehicles Project tender concluded with FNSS PARS ALPHA and BMC ALTUĞ 8x8 getting contracts, we’ve decided to move PARS and ALTUĞ based vehicles to Research Section and moving Otokar’s ARMA 6x6 and ARMA 8x8 to Premium Section to be more in-line with in-service vehicles of Turkish Armed Forces.

New Additions

• There are limited new additions the Ground Forces Tech Tree; this updated more focused on name changes and vehicle placement than new additions.

Following list of vehicles includes names and placement changes alongside new additions. New additions will be marked with ^New! mark and tried information.

Light Vehicle Branch

ZMA-15 (Dragar)

Brief Specification

• Armament

  • Main: GIAT/Nexter M811 25mm Dual-Feed Auto-Cannon
  • Secondary: Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun

• Mobility

  • Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V-53T Diesel Engine, 350 Horsepower
  • Transmission: Allison X200-4 Fully Automatic Transmission, 4 Forward, 1 Reverse
  • Suspension: Torsion Bar
  • Top Speed: 65 km/h
  • Horsepower-Per-Ton: Around 24 hp/t

• Protection

  • Hull Armor:
    • STANAG 4569 Level IV
    • Mesh Armor
  • Turret Armor: STANAG 4569 Level II or III
  • Smoke Grenades: 6x
  • Active/Passive Protection System: None

• Accessories

  • Night Sight
  • Thermal Sight
  • Laser Rangefinder
  • Dual-Axis Stabilization
  • Hunter-Killer Capacity (Commander’s Override)

Estimated Battle Rating: 7.0

ZMA-15 (EWS)

Brief Specification

• Armament

  • Main: Oerlikon KBA 25mm Dual-Feed Auto-Cannon
  • Secondary: Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun

• Mobility

  • Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V-53T Diesel Engine, 350 Horsepower
  • Transmission: Allison X200-4 Fully Automatic Transmission, 4 Forward, 1 Reverse
  • Suspension: Torsion Bar
  • Top Speed: 65 km/h
  • Horsepower-Per-Ton: Around 24 hp/t

• Protection

  • Hull Armor:
    • STANAG 4569 Level IV
    • Mesh Armor
  • Turret Armor: STANAG 4569 Level II or III
  • Smoke Grenades: 6x
  • Active/Passive Protection System: None

• Accessories

  • Night Sight
  • Thermal Sight
  • Laser Rangefinder
  • Dual-Axis Stabilization
  • Hunter-Killer Capacity (Commander’s Override)

Estimated Battle Rating: 6.7

ZMA-15T1

Brief Specification

• Armament

  • Main: Oerlikon KBA 25mm Dual-Feed Auto-Cannon
  • Secondary: Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun

• Mobility

  • Engine: Detroit Diesel 6V-53T Diesel Engine, 350 Horsepower
  • Transmission: Allison X200-4 Fully Automatic Transmission, 4 Forward, 1 Reverse
  • Suspension: Torsion Bar
  • Top Speed: 65 km/h
  • Horsepower-Per-Ton: Around 20.5 hp/t - 21.8 hp/t

• Protection

  • Hull Armor:
    • STANAG 4569 Level IV
    • Mesh Armor
  • Turret Armor: STANAG 4569 Level II or III
  • Smoke Grenades: 6x
  • Active/Passive Protection System: None

• Accessories

  • Spall Liner
  • Night Sight
  • Thermal Sight
  • Laser Range Finder
  • Laser Warning Receiver
  • Automatic Target Tracking
  • Automatic Ballistic Calculation
  • 360° Close Range Surveillance System
  • Hunter-Killer Capacity (Commander’s Override)

Estimated Battle Rating: 7.3

PARS III 6x6 (SABER UKK)

Brief Specification

• Armament

  • Main: M242 Bushmaster 25mm Dual-Feed Auto-Cannon
  • Secondary: Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun

• Mobility

  • Engine: Cummins Unspecified Diesel Engine, ? Horsepower
  • Transmission: Unspecified Fully Automatic Transmission, 7 Forward, 1 Reverse
  • Suspension: Double Wishbone Fully Independent Hydropneumatic
  • Top Speed: 100 km/h
  • Horsepower-Per-Ton: More than 18.8 hp/t

• Protection

  • Hull Armor: Classified
  • Turret Armor: Classified
  • Smoke Grenades: 8x
  • Active/Passive Protection System: None

• Accessories

  • Night Sight
  • Thermal Sight
  • Laser Range Finder
  • Dual-Axis Stabilization
  • Automatic Target Tracking
  • Electronic Image Stabilisation
  • Automatic Ballistic Calculation

Estimated Battle Rating: 8.7

PARS IV 8x8 (SABER UKK)

Brief Specification

• Armament

  • Main: Bushmaster III 35mm/50mm Auto-Cannon
  • Secondary: Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun

• Mobility

  • Engine: Unspecified Diesel Engine, ? Horsepower
  • Transmission: Unspecified Fully Automatic Transmission, 6 Forward, 1 Reverse
  • Suspension: Double Wishbone Fully Independent Hydropneumatic ˀ
  • Top Speed: 100 km/h
  • Horsepower-Per-Ton: More Than 19 hp/t

• Protection

  • Hull Armor: Classified Modular Armor
  • Turret Armor: Classified Modular Armor
  • Smoke Grenades: 12x
  • Active/Passive Protection System: None

• Accessories

  • CITV
  • Night Sight
  • Thermal Sight
  • Laser Range Finder
  • Dual-Axis Stabilization
  • Automatic Target Tracking
  • Automatic Ballistic Calculation
  • Hunter-Killer Capacity (Commander’s Override)

Estimated Battle Rating: 9.3

ALTUĞ 8x8 (SARP 100/35)

Brief Specification

• Armament

  • Main: Oerlikon/MKE KDC-02 35mm Linkless Feed Auto-Cannon or ASELSAN T-35 Linkless Feed Auto-Cannon
  • Secondary: Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun

• Mobility

  • Engine: Caterpillar C13 Diesel Engine, 711 Horsepower
  • Transmission: Allison 4000-Series Fully Automatic Transmission, 6 Forward, 1 Reverse
  • Suspension: Double Wishbone Fully Independent Hydropneumatic
  • Top Speed: 100 km/h
  • Horsepower-Per-Ton: Around 26 hp/t

• Protection

  • Hull Armor: STANAG 4569 Level VI A
  • Turret Armor: STANAG 4569 Level IV
  • Smoke Grenades: 8x
  • Active/Passive Protection System: AKKOR

• Accessories

  • CITV
  • Night Sight
  • Thermal Sight
  • Laser Range Finder
  • Laser Warning Receiver
  • Sniper Detection System
  • Automatic Target Tracking
  • Mobile Camouflage System
  • Hunter-Killer Capacity (Commander’s Override)

Estimated Battle Rating: 10.3

Anti-Air Branch

KORKUT SSA

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ZMA-19 AKINCI LGFA

PARS 4x4 STA

KAPLAN STA

KAPLAN KMC

KAPLAN KMC-U ^New!

• • Main: ROKETSAN TMLS in Different Configurations:
    • CİRİT 70mm Laser-Guided Missile
    • OMTAS Medium Range ATGM
    • L-UMTAS Laser Guided Long Range ATGM
    • UMTAS Long Range ATGM
    • UMTAS-GM Blok-1 IIR Long Range ATGM
    • UMTAS-GM Blok-1 YAL Long Range ATGM
  • Secondary: MKE MT12-QCB or CANiK QCB M2 or SAR 127 MT 12.7mm Heavy Machine-Gun

• Mobility

  • Engine: Unspecified Diesel Engine, ? Horsepower
  • Transmission: Fully Automatic Gearbox
  • Suspension: Torsion Bar
  • Top Speed: 65 km/h
  • Horsepower-Per-Ton: Around 21 hp/t

• Protection

  • Armor: Classified
  • Smoke Grenades: 16x
  • Active/Passive Protection System: None

• Accessories

  • Night Sight
  • Thermal Sight
  • Laser Range Finder
  • See-Before-Seen Capability
  • Telescopic Periscope System
  • Fire On-the-Move Capability

Estimated Battle Rating: 11.0

Premium Branch I

ZMA-15T1 (SABER UKK)

Arma 8x8 (SARP 100/35)

KAPLAN HT(3105)

PARS III 6x6 (TEBER-II) ^New!

Brief Specification

• Armament

  • Main: Mk44S Stretch 30/40mm Bushmaster Dual-Feed Chain-Gun
  • Secondary: Co-Axial 7.62mm Machine-Gun
  • ATGM: Selected by User, for Turkey Could be:
    • OMTAS Medium Range ATGM
    • L-UMTAS Laser Guided Long Range ATGM
    • UMTAS Long Range ATGM
    • UMTAS-GM Blok-1 IIR Long Range ATGM
    • UMTAS-GM Blok-1 YAL Long Range ATGM

• Mobility

  • Engine: Cummins Unspecified Diesel Engine, ? Horsepower
  • Transmission: Unspecified Fully Automatic Transmission, 7 Forward, 1 Reverse
  • Suspension: Double Wishbone Fully Independent Hydropneumatic
  • Top Speed: 100 km/h
  • Horsepower-Per-Ton: More than 18.8 hp/t

• Protection

  • Hull Armor: Classified
  • Turret Armor: Classified
  • Smoke Grenades: 12x
  • Active/Passive Protection System: None

• Accessories

  • CITV
  • Spall Liner
  • Night Sight
  • Thermal Sight
  • Laser Range Finder
  • Dual-Axis Stabilization
  • Automatic Target Tracking
  • Electronic Image Stabilisation
  • Automatic Ballistic Calculation

Estimated Battle Rating: 11.3

Premium Branch II

ZMA-19 AKINCI (CSE 90LP)

M60A3 NG (P)

Arma 8x8 (MIZRAK-30)

Arma II 8x8 (XC-8)

Arma II 8x8 (MIZRAK-30)

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Main suggestion post also will be updated in according to latest changes. As always, we’re open to all kind of constructive criticism and ideas. Feel free to share your thoughts with us.

WT Turkiye Tech Tree Project Server, Feel Free to Join

[Raiden_Black]

FNSS Kaplan IFV variant with Cockerill 3030 -30mm Unmanned Turret.

[Raiden_Black]

Tulpar-S with 30mm unmanned turre:

Tulpar-S was originally created as an ATGM carrier but lost to FNSS’ Kaplan STA:

[Raiden_Black]

Otokar Arma and Tulpar equipped with BMP-3 turrets during testing in Kazakhstan.

[Arda_2736]

M113A2T2

M110 Self-Propelled Artilery

[Raiden_Black]

Pars Alpha with Hisar-A+ launchers

[Darkplane55]

I would love to see it in game ngl

[Naoasia]

M36B1 Or M36B2

[_YugoSlav]

Either B2 or regular M36