Exactly. See how you match the F-5 so closely? Now imagine you’ve forced him to waste some energy so he’s at a lower speed than you, now you have an advantage. Or say he pulls but not at his optimal rate given the real world conditions, you turn in more aggressive, maybe trade some energy for a harder turn, now you’re on his 6. That’s how a dogfight works.
Same goes for Alpha jet, he has a slight advantage for most speeds, but compresses before you and again…it’s not a huge gap. If you manage energy and engage in a smart way rather than just holding S and going into a horizontal rate fight. In the case of the troublesome Alpha Jet you’ve had issues with, you have more thrust at any speed than he does.
I’m not critiquing you to be mean or say you’re bad, just to say I think you haven’t spent enough time learning the AMX and its ability to punch above its weight class. Could it go down to 10.7? Yeah, but to say it sucks is genuinely absurd. I have a K/D of 3.28 in the AMX and I’m genuinely not a good player. The only jet I have a higher K/D in is the excellent MB326K at a square 4.0
I’m in favor of nerfing the Tornado IDS ASSTA and moving it down to 10.0 or 10.7 , as Germany is poor in CAS at that BR in Ground RB while the US has the A-10 , for example. I also support nerfing the Tornado IDS SLE to fit lower BRs—after all, in top tier, who’s going to pick it when the difference to the Eurofighter Aesa is only 0.7?
10.0 would be unguided bombs only as we have seen with WTD-61, MFG and IDS (A200)
10.7 I could see with the introduction of limited guided weapons, such as maybe only AGM-88 and if they ever get added BL-755 but it certainly would not have any GBUs.
But does this not create a new CAS gap at 11.3?
With the presence of both a premium and event aircraft to fullfill this exact Tornado role, I doubt it would ever be done or adding another Tornado for the TT (I hope they do it for Britain though)
I do somewhat concur with this as I have the exact same opinion regarding the Tornado GR4 and im somewhat of the opnion that they dont need nerfing at all, but rather they are just straight over BRed and probably should be more like 11.7 in GRB at the moment.
The introduction of ARM Soon™ and hopefully eventually MMW Brimstones would change that, but for now, yeah, I see no reason to ever use the GR4 (especially given the presence of better CAS at a lower BR) and thus the SLE is in the same boat
My PoV is Britain with the GR4 and our main lineup is at 11.7, but yeah for Germany it probably wouldn’t help much, but… even 12.0 it makes it usable over the ASSTA1 for your 12.0 premiums, which is at least more than what you have now…
For the GR4, a BR drop would be valuable and maybe more valuable than any other change.
For the SLE… I think the better solution would be some buffs with a minor BR drop. No idea what buffs though.
But ultimately top tier ground is just a compressed mess. The core hope though would be the state and effectiveness of ARM.
I dont think the Typhoon has been equipped with AGM-88 and whilst the FGR4 was equipped with 2x ALARM (but not intergrated), Germany never used ALARM and it oculd go either way. That could mean that the SLE suddenly becomes a valuable ARM slinger as a reason to run it alongside a Typhoon. At least until Brimstones get buffed to IRL performance. This is kinda where Im at with the GR4, hoping that 9x ALARM makes it a viable choice to actually ever equip
Yeah… i have mixed opinions on those… but still 4x FnF, LOAL AGM-88 could be useful if they are decent. (though they could also be terrible)
But ultimately thats just the compression coming into play, many good aircraft can quickly be rendered pointless because the slightest uptier just faces the top aircraft. If Ground and air had the same max BR… suddenly aircraft become waaaaay more balanced
I just don’t understand why the Tornado can’t get lower BRs with guided bombs when several other nations have them below 11.0, and the US has guided bombs even below 10.0. Some can even carry 6 Mavericks along with guided bombs in their loadout, all while being below 11.0.
The issue with something like AGM-65B, especially when also fired at low subsonics and low alt, you are only really getting 6-8km out of it, well in range of any SAM. At least I farm kills against A-10s flying low all the time in something like the Stormer.
With a Tonka, you can fly at 20k ft, usually out of range of most SAMs and drop GBUs with near impunity.
Sure, there are others similar, like the Jaguar GR1A for example that can do the same. But the Tonka has more weapons (better Tpod in the case of the ASSTA1), waaaay more CMs, better RWR, is faster, handles better, etc etc. Thats not also including the ASSTA1 and GR1s other weapons, like the GPS bombs on the ASSTA1. I think 11.3 is about right, though the issue is stuff like the Pantsir should be 12.3/12.7 not 12.0
What’s even more ridiculous is that Israel has the F-4E (Kurnass 2000) with 6 Mavericks and TV-guided bombs—less exposure, more lethality, and more speed to strike and return for rearm, all while being a supersonic jet at 11.3 . Detail: it even has better Air-to-Air missiles and a higher overall missile count… Meanwhile, we are here debating whether Tornados should be nerfed with laser-guided bombs to fit into lower BRs in Ground RB…
Even then you unfortunately have them by comparison the subsonic AMX Ghibli with only GBUs at 11.0 while other subsonics at and below the same BR have FnF missiles like Mavs and Kh-29. Not to mention then only 0.3 above the Ghibli with only GBUs you get the supersonic IDS Ret.8 with same missiles, two after burning engines, LJDAMs, and glide bombs with 30 km of range. They are just really bad at properly deciding what affects BR of CAS aircraft it seems.
