if the GR.1 is to get upgraded engines like the German tech tree IDS and the Italian IDS(1995) and IDS MLU it should probably go up in BR because out of those 4 it is the only one with AGMs by way of the PGM-500 and PGM-2000.
it having weaker engines but significantly more usefull ordinance is in my opinion a fair trade off for the same BR.
Maybe for GRB (though we have no 11.3 tanks anyway), but they are of no value in ARB where you just run unguided bombs
If anything the ASSTA1s JDAMs are more.valuable.
Did the tornados in italian service ever have the downgraded engines that the british one have?
clearly we fly the GR.1 very differently.
i bring 2 PGM-2000s at all times, use them to squeeze some extra points by hitting ground units before making the mad dash to the base with the 8 1000lbs bombs i still have under the belly of the plane.
Sometimes the PGM-2000s even work great as distractions for enemies but that is very dependent on how familiar the enemy is with all the ordinance and planes at this BR.
this has consistently netted me more points then the ASSTA1 version has without PGMs.
If the GR.1 is to get mk 103 engines it should have an increase in BR in my opinion.
Personally i think the current trade off is fine.
The GR1 is already at 11.7 in ARB vs 11.3 for the German one, is that not sufficient enough? 12.0 for the GR1 in ARB would be a vast overtier.
As far as I am aware. Every single tornado IDS entered service with the mk101 and was upgraded to the mk103 a few years later. Among other things, it was a big boost to reliability of the engines iirc
as far as i am aware all Tornados with guided ordinance baring the GR.4 are 11.7 in air modes and 11.3 in ground modes.
and for Clarity.
I am not asking for any change, personally i think the way it currently is, is good.
the IDS ASSTA, the IDS(1995) and the IDS MLU get better engines
the GR.1 gets better ordinance options.
Yes, so why would mk103 engines make an aircraft that should already be 11.3 be 12.0 when no other tornado IDS with mk103 engines is 12.0
Gr1 should already be 11.3
Except this is not the reason given for the nerf.
It has officially been stated the only reason for it is to create a feeling progression going from the Gr1 to the Gr4.
It’s had mk101 engines from day 1, including before PGMs were ever reported
if the GR.1 was to get mk103 engines and retain the PGMs it would be hands down better for all modes and in my opinion warrant a higher BR compared to the IDS ASSTA, the IDS95 and IDS MLU.
how that is to be achieved doesn’t matter to be, the rest could go down a bit or the GR.1 could go up a bit.
as it stands, which is my prefered way the GR.1 gets better ordinance, the others get better engines.
If its in the UK tree its nerfed for no apparent reason, is what iv concluded in the few months iv played.
Pretty shit state to be fair. Numerous vics comparatively over BR’d. Numerous vics that are better on other trees.
Guess it wont get better as the games been out over a decade. How people stuck it out this long is crazy…
So why isn’t the A200C at 12.0? It has a better A2G loadout to the Gr1 and has Mk103 engines
you mean the IDS MLU i assume?
that does not have better A2G ordinance compared to the GR.1
the PGMs are FnF and signicantly longer ranged then just about any options the IDS MLU gets.
the IDS MLU retains only laser guided bombs requiring it to maintain that lock and it gets the addition of a handfull of SDB Is which are GPS guided and have such a tiny payload they are barely good for anything, they make for a neat distraction on radar i guess.
the GR.1 having PGMs will just make it better in most cases compared to any other of the IDS tornados baring the GR.4. the other tornados get better engines to compensate for having worse ordinance.
to reitterate, my stance is that the GR.1 should retain the Mk101 engines and its better ordinance and it should all stay as is.
If the GR1 gets Mk.103s then, flight performance wise, it will be identical to the 11.3 Tornados but with the addition of guided ordinance. That would justify an 11.7 BR in my opinion (Although I still think it should be 11.3 in ARB) but a 12.0 BR is wholly unjustified imo.
So why did it have Mk101 engines BEFORE the PGMs were reported and added?
Its had Mk101 engines since day 1 when it was if anything. Weaker than the ASSTA1 with a weaker Tpod.
The idea that being able to FnF kill what, 1 maybe 2 AI tanks per PGM-2000 is just an insane justification for it to have both a higher BR than the Tornado IDS, MFG, WTD61 AND weaker engines.
It should be 11.3 with Mk103 engines. Youd get more AI kills just running 12x Mk13s
i am advocating for retaining the weaker engines and the current BR because it gets better ordinance to compensate. it was weaker then the others on release and then it got new ordinance to compensate for that.
i am saying that if it was to get the upgraded engines it would be strictly better compared to the other IDS tornados baring the GR.4 and should not be the same BR as them but as it stands there is a fair trade off, one gets better ordinance, the others get better engines.
The tornados without any guided ordinance at all having a lower BR is just a given, laser guided ordinance playing a role at all in ARB BRs is silly but as of current it stands so comparing it to planes that don’t have any of it won’t go anywhere.
the compareable torandos are the IDS ASSTA, the IDS95 and the IDS MLU, those 3 get better engines and the GR.1 gets FnF ordinance to make up for having less engine power.
its insane to think the GR.1 should both get an engine buff and a BR buff whilst retaining its current selection of guided ordinance.
If it has Mk101 engines, then there is no justification for it to be 11.7. And should be 11.3
None of the Tornado IDS should be 11.7 at the moment bar maybe the MLU if/when it gets its missing upgrades.
If the Mk101 engines are the nerf needed to balance the extra loadout options (which I seriously doubt make any difference in effeciency and were in place before the PGMs were added) then it doesnt also need a BR nerf. If it stays at 11.7 with Mk101 engines and the rest go down to 11.3. Then it can get BOL or Aim-9Ms to justify being at 11.7 (yes it had both)
F4E can take 6 mavs and 2 HOBO at the same time. It also had great flight performance and a2a capability. It is 11.3 in air and ground.
Now look at tornado gr.1 which is worse in pretty much everyday. It is 11.7. The extra FnF capability does not justify the weaker engines, it just allows for it to be a not total shi bus. Additionally in GRB you can in theory get more kills with the LGBs or at least the same amount. So it’s not really going to make you that better except for killing AA.
Also no clue why you are trying to bring PGMs into ARB, use bombs or just use nothing and go for a2a combat (what I do)
allow me to make my stance clear
Tornado+101+LGB+FnF=Tornado+103+LGB
Tornado+103+LGB+FnF>Tornado+103+LGB
If X > Y, X should be a higher BR, this can be achieved by raising X or by lowering Y.
now if you want to say that as they currently stand all of the guided ordinance torandos should be a lower BR in general that is another topic entirely and i’d argee that across the board they could be a lower BR.
there is no point in bringing the F-4s into the conversation at all.
if you want to argue the tornados as a whole should get a lower BR or the F-4 should get a high BR that is a different discusion alltogethere and on the whole i agree that the guided ordinance tornado IDSs have too high of a BR in general.
Tornado+101+LGB+FnF=Tornado+103+LGB
Tornado+103+LGB+FnF>Tornado+103+LGB
if X > Y than X should be a higher BR compared to X, this could be achieved by raising X or lowering Y, either one will work.
Bringing PGMs to ARB allows for some free points on the way to a bombing point as in my experience it is unlikely to get a second base and being guarenteed those extra points is very nice.
