The Tornado ADVs currently located at 12.0 are in a very wierd spot. They have an incredibly good M-Scan radar, great RWR, excellent weapons loadout and a theoretically very high CM count. Where these strengths can be leveraged, they out class anything else at 12.0 and probably should be at 12.3. The issue is that they dont have the FM for it. Whilst they are more than adequate in a straight line and can defend against most BVR threats without too much issue, they cannot dogfight reliably and pretty much anything they will see will end them without much of a challenge once the fight goes WVR.
This creates a problem. Leaving them stuck at 12.0.
So what can be done?
BOL - The Tornado ADVs are dependent on BOL for most of their CMs, and yet BOL is in a truly terrible state that barely works under some conditions, what should be an asset is almost a liability. BOL current state however is a total work ficition and its time to be fixed. If you would like to read the full issues regarding BOL, then Flame’s write up is the best, and there is no point me even trying to write anything else for it:
Phimat Pods - Much like other aircraft, including a few already at 12.0, the Tornado ADVs (at the very least the F3, but the decision seems to be to keep the Italian one basically identical) can get Phimat Pods, these contain 216 large calibre chaff and would be a notable boost to the Tornados ability to defend against SARH and ARH threats, especially within the context of moving up to 12.3.
The Phimat Pod can be equipped in 1 of 3 possible configurations.
On the currently un-used outer wing pylon (A TRD is normally placed on the otherside which would currently be non-functional, but could at least be modeled visually), where BOZ is located on the IDS Tornados.
Spoiler
Now whether the 12.0 Tornados should gain access to all possibly configurations (mutually exclusive of course), Im not sure, if there is a balance concern, then the configuration that replaces the Aim-9 would make the most sense as it has a “downside” to it that is more notable than the others.
In theory, between Phimat Pods and BOL fixes, the Tornado F3 could be running 352 Large Calibre Flares and 432 Large Calibre Chaff. I think that would make up for the weaker FM
FM Buffs. The Tornados FM is a half-finished mess that the Devs have stated they will not fix. This is a real shame because it leaves the Tornado without any real strength. One of the biggest issues though is that the Tornados can no longer reach their top speed due to too much drag, this is problematic because this is one area where the Tornado use to hold some defensive advantage over something like an F-16, it could just run away. It cant anymore. The introduction of the Mig-29KR opens a new options properly though, Emergency Combat Thrust, something the devs have stated before they might add to the Tornado, but simply never did. With it in-game on another aircraft, then this should definetly be considered for the Tornado, it could even be slightly overtuned in some way to compensate for the nerfed state of the underlying FM. Increasing the speed the Tornado can achieve.
Misc Buffs and fixes. There are a lot of smaller problems that never got fixed on the Tornados, such as incorrect ammo belts for the BK27, missing LSZ information for the Skyflash SuperTEMPs. Missing Hindenburg fuel tanks found on the F3 Late, etc etc. All these small issues if fixed could be quite a nice buff overall to the Tornados performance or at the very least, QoL, which is inpart why some aircraft feel so bad, despite being half decent.
Future Buffs and features. The Tornado F3 is also able to run a Towed Radar Decoy, which would be a big boost to its defensive suite. There are some other ECM related features that oculd be interesting too, such as the F3 being able to jam the radar located in the Mig-29 and Su-27 but we’ll have to see if that kind of feature is ever added. There is also RAM coating that the Tornados recieved for Op Granby which might be useful once RCS gets better modeled, likely later this year.
And if all that should fail, and the Tornado F3 still isnt strong enough to move up, but remains an issue where it is currently located, Aim-9Ms remain an option for it.
So would you like to see the Tornado ADVs at 12.0 be brought up to their true IRL potential, allowing them to be more appropriately placed in the tree?
Yes
No
0voters
All of these buffs would also greatly help the F3 Late currently at 13.0 too. I dont think they would be enough to move it up to 13.3, but would certainly make it a viable and fairly decent aircraft at 13.0
Of course, as with all things, decompression would help too
Im a tornado enjoyer myself, but i dont see any reason to buff the tornado F3 (early).
Global stat wise, the Tornado ADV and F3 are the best 12.0 planes by a long shot, with the highest KPS till 13.3 only losing to the 2000-S5’s KD . Its quite obvious that its already a strong plane. (and no, this isnt because Italian and british players are better than everyone else)
I fear making any sort of buff will cause the plane to go up to 12.3 to suffer from the Su30 spam.
It will worsen the br compression if buffed in the current state of 12.0
BOL fix - I support in general but I never noticed it as a problem on the tornado in specific
Phimat - I support 100%
FM Buffs - yes for every tornado it is long overdue
Misc buffs - ehh it’s ok
ECM - hard no, it would make the tornado too OP for its br and then they’d probably up tier it like crazy. I think really only higher tier aircraft should receive tangible ECM, and then other aircraft that need it like bombers and F-104S.ASA, in theory so many aircraft had built in ECM and can take ECM pods, so if implemented at low tier it would just make everything annoying.
I think it could be great to use as means for balancing low tier aircraft (with in the realms as historical accuracy, but as it is right now it fits perfectly as a lot of underpowered aircraft irl made up for this with great ECM) and then also at high tier
The main thing I want for tornados in general is FM correction, most other things are optional (for me personally I want Italians to get kormoran and full weaponry load and avionics on A-200C)
That is kinda the point of the buffs though. So it can move up to 12.3 without being rendered DOA.
In its current state, moving up to 12.3 would be really really bad, but with how Gaijin actually balance (or more accurately, dont balance) vehicles in-game. Its current performance could very well result in it moving up to 12.3 before long.
Id rather have some, if not all these buffs in place before then, not 2 years afterwards when its stats drop through the floor enough for the devs to care a little bit
Ive had a few issues with some IR missiles just ignoring the BOL and defending against any Fox-3 or even Fox-1 with them is much harder than say, doing the same in the GR4 with Large Calibre Chaff. Especially given getting into the notch in the first place is overall much slower.
If nothing else, their current performance is just unacceptable
TRD I think would be good if/when added, but the rest of the ECM is just entirely dependent on what or if Gaijin models any of that. Im personally doubting it.
Yeah…
Alas, Gaijin cant be bothered to actually finish what they started.
A full Tornado F3 FSP would be interesting.
or a specific Op Granby fit Premium maybe (9M, Skyflash STs, RAM, Phimat, etc)
