What is the thermal sight on the Commander’s Weapon Station/Stabilized Commander’s Weapon Station and its resolution?
I’ve seen this thermal module on both the regular weapon station and its stabilized variant. Currently we can even see it in-game on the Australian M1A1 AIM Squadron vehicle mounted on the Commander’s Weapon Station.
I’ve also seen multiple articles the vehicles receiving the DCM but having different thermal resolutions for the vehicles like the M1A1 SA, M1A1 AIM (ADF) having the equivalent of Generation-1/2 while the FEP having Generation-2 with its AIDATS upgrade.
Note: The in-game AIM/Australian M1A1 AIM does not have the SCWS (it has a standard CWS) while the SA and FEP do.
Purpose: I think it’s important to discuss this since this feature is entirely missing from the M1A1 AIM (ADF) and when we finally do get variants like the M1A1 SA and M1A1 FEP, having a Commander’s thermal sight for sim battle purposes would be highly beneficial.
The thermal sight module on an M1A1 SA’s SCWS.
The thermal sight module on a M1A1 FEP’s SCWS.
The sight seen on the in-game M1A1 AIM’s CWS.
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BAE TIM 1500 if I remember correctly. Uncooled 640x480 detector
Same module as used on the M151 and M153 CROWS.
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You have this source attached to your current suggestion: http://gvsets.ndia-mich.org/documents/VEA/2009/Recent%20Integration%20of%202nd%20Generation%20Thermal%20Imaging%20on%20Armored%20Vehicles.pdf . It mentions an uncooled 2nd generation thermal imager for the .50 cal. It also mentions a “scanned 480x4 system” which fits the description of a 2nd generation TI (detector format, presence of a scanning mechanism). This would be the thermal imager you are looking for.
It’s also not referring to the gunner sight of the Abrams which uses Sofradir’s SADA II, a cooled 2nd generation 480x6 detector.
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That’s what I had saw but I saw some other conflicting information and wanted to validate it with some help. My own link isn’t even working for me lol. Also, I was confused if that is referring specifically to the M1A1 FEP’s modifications or the camera for SCWS as a whole because there was mention that the M1A1 FEP specifically received a new camera for the SCWS when they received the AIDATS upgrade.
TIM 1500 is used on CROWS. The SCWS is developed by a different manufacturer. My initial guess was TIM too but this doesn’t seem to be the case.
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The 50 Cal Sight system, Figure 3, is integrated into the
USMC and US Army M1A1 Tank Commander’s Weapon
Station (CWS). The Thermal Sight Module is mounted on
the exterior portion of the CWS on a modified equilibrator
bracket. The TSM is uses a Raytheon uncooled
microbolometer FPA that is remotely focused.
So it’s actually a Raytheon system, not the BAE one I remembered. But still an uncooled microbolometer Focal Plane Array so technologically identical to the TIM 1500. We just don’t know exactly the resolution of the Raytheon FPA.
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TSM has a scanning mechanism. Due to the small size I highly doubt it can achieve anywhere near the performance of the TIM 1500 as that sort of 2nd generation system tend to be very bulky whereas 3rd generation are a much smaller package due to the absence of a mechanical scanning mechanism.
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The stuff about the FEP scanning sight is in reference to the gunner’s sight. It was upgraded to the same standard as the Army’s M1A1SA with a SADA II detector, which is dewar-cooled, scanning 480x4
Under the firepower enhancement package (FEP), DRS Technologies was also awarded a contract for the GEN II TIS to upgrade US Marine Corps M1A1 tanks. GEN II TIS is based on the 480×4 SADA (standard advanced dewar assembly) detector.
Focal Plane Array described for the TSM are not mechanically scanning by definition. The scanning technique used by FPAs is microscanning, which is a digital oversampling technique
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Sofradir manufactured the detector and they state it was 480x6 FPA:
This is what led me to believe that the 480x4 FPA detector was in reference to the .50 cal sight. I’ll have to confirm later with a separate source what format the detector is for SADA II.
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@Bossman919, @da12thmonkey, I appreciate you guys, so far we have a Thermal Sight Module (TSM) that utilizes a Raytheon Uncooled-microbolometer FPA for focusing and processing and likely has the capability of 2nd-generation Thermal Sight but still TBD.
This states that the SADA II is a 480x4 array:
Spoiler
The French source above could be a typo.
However, the SCWS definitely doesn’t use TIM 1500:
The TIM 1500 is used for the Stryker’s commander sight:
Spoiler
And has 1.7x - 8.6x optical zoom for the thermal channel:
Spoiler
The Abrams in Ukraine also uses SCWS and the optical zoom for the thermal channel is 2x - 6x:
Spoiler
In conclusion @Yontzee , the SCWS appears to use an uncooled 2nd generation TI. The fact that it is of the 2nd generation is sufficient for its implementation in-game. Though, if you are curious for more information then I suggest digging through old Raytheon web archives.
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Thanks man, I appreciate you.
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I know that. What I am saying is that the Abrams TSM/RTS isn’t using a SADA II. It uses a completely different thermal imager. SADA II is what is used in the Gunner’s GPS/TIS (and the CITV on A2SEPs).
Mechanically scanning 2nd generation systems like SADA II cannot be uncooled (like I said, TSM/RTS can’t be using SADA II). The scanning mechanism generates heat rendering the detector ineffective if it is not cooled. Uncooled systems are imaging, two-dimensional VOx or α-Si microbolometer arrays - which is why I said technologically identical to TIM 1500, even if it’s not TIM 1500 itself.
VOx/α-Si 2D imaging arrays have been around for a long time and have now been used on a vast number of widely-issued compact, lightweight thermal imaging systems for well over 20 years. Ranging from infantry weapon thermal sights like AN/PAS-13 (320 x 240 on LWTS and 640 x 480 on the MWTS and HWTS), to driver’s vision enhancers for armoured vehicles like AN/VAS-5B (640 x 480). It’s old, affordable technology - a lot cheaper than 2nd Gen imaging systems like SADA II but also inferior in imaging capabilities - particularly in unfavourable atmospheric conditions.
Contrary to the fact that 3rd gen systems do also use two-dimensional imaging arrays, this doesn’t mean that systems like TIM 1500 (and the Raytheon detector used by the Abrams RTS) are 3rd gen.
True 3rd gen is high-performance, cooled, and capable of producing HD-resolution video. They use newer technology and more advanced materials (MCT, QWIP, TSL etc.). US-military’s criteria for “3rd gen” goes further, stipulating that the imager has dual-band (MWIR and LWIR on the same detector array) imaging capability.
Yes, but as thermals are currently modelled (that is deeply flawed and haphazard), the only necessary info is thermal generation. This is why the TIM 1500 is modelled as being of the 3rd generation in-game, even on the VBCI-2 (MCT-30) and M1A2 SEP v2.
