On the Topic of the Tornado GR4 I did notice something very interesting. The Brimstone module is independent of the Targeting Pod tree of upgrades. But the Targeting pod is MANDATORY to use them… This at least tells me the SAL change was rather recent and originally they did intend to add them to some extent in their untouched state.
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This is incorrect. Brimstones were from the outset always going to come in SAL mode. Studies were conducted for some time regarding other modes and SAL was the only mode possible to enable the weapon to be introduced in any capacity currently into the game.
Without SAL mode, they would not have been introduced altogether to the game at this time. Its thanks to Gunjob’s research on this mode that made even that possible.
Why is the Brimstone not getting its other modes and range? the Kh 38 can be fired at 30km and destroy the target reliably, what many people see is just Russian bias.
“Developer comment: We’d like to mention that Brimstone will only have semi-active laser homing (SAL) mode in the game. The fire and forget mode and the active radar homing seeker will not be available for a few reasons. The primary reason is that this seeker utilizes the “lock-on after launch (LOAL)” mode, this mode allows the weapon to be fired in the general area of a target without needing any actual precision from the operator, who can remain at long range in complete safety.
We feel weapons that can be used outside of the direct line of sight of the target without needing any preliminary reconnaissance or direct user targeting are not currently workable for the game. Weapons such as Brimstone, AGM-114L cause a particular problem and similarly to other ATGMs that have lock after launch modes like the Spike and AJ.168 will not have such abilities in the game.
These weapon types present several issues all at once, they require no challenge to use effectively and have no counterplay options for those being attacked. The attacker can operate outside of the range of any anti-air system in the game, Brimstone is also immune to smoke, so this won’t help either.
ARH modes for air-to-ground weapons won’t be workable until natural and artificial interference to these guidance systems can be implemented, as there are no electronic reconnaissance and electronic warfare systems in the game. Adding these weapons now would allow them to operate perfectly without any counter, which we don’t want to do. Additionally, at closer combat ranges ATGMs with ARH cannot distinguish between allied and enemy targets, and this would lead to a large amount of accidental teamkills as well.”
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The communities question is this.
If FnF modes on the brimstones were determined to be too strong. What is it about the KH-38s that render them weak enough to be added with an IR+IOG seeker and not also limited to a laser+IOG variant?
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F&F Brimstones are fundamentally different to Kh-38 in multiple respects. Gunjob has already posted a comparison between the two here: Major Update "Firebirds" - Rumor Round-Up & Discussion (Part 2) - #9171 by Gunjob
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And the Kh-38 is still completely overpowered and nothing was done to artificially nerf them and bring them in line with existing contemporary ordnance
even the JH-7A was denied AKD-88s as it would outrange SPAA but the Kh-38s were given a pass
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Most People probably understand that we wont getting Brimstones in their final Form since like Gunjob stated that they would be comically overpowerd.
i have no problem with this decision.
But we arent asking for its final Form, but just for a Basic FnF mode so we dont have to guide them in all the way and retaining some of its original purpose, that being a FnF missile.
They can be countered by smoke like most IR/TV seekers and they are limited in range by their 60 sec guiding time wich gives them a max range of about 14km.
They also would need direct line of sight to be locked and fired and in the time where you enter their max range and finding Targets you are well within most AA firing ranges.
Weather will also play a huge roll in their effective range in the end wich means you have to fly closer to the Battelfield making yourself a easy target for AA missiles.
and beeing a Tornado you will not evade their missiles as easy like other potent Cas jets.
Also adjusting weapons, reload times etc for balancing reason is already a thing like the AJ 168 who got a TV seeker despite them being guided remotly in RL.
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in the current state on the dev server (which I do not see changing) the Tornado GR4 underperforms both as a 12.3 ARB jet and a 12.3 GRB strike aircraft
The best weapons on the GR4 being the same PGMs that were already on the Tornado GR1 down at 11.3
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The point is, why wasn’t 30km range, FnF IR guided missiles also determined to be fundamentally OP. The Su-34 will be the absolute dominant power at top tier GRB and I hope it will have a ground BR of at minimum 13.3.
Nothing. Absolutely nothing will be able to fight back or do anything about it short of spending 600+ SP on a fox-3 armed fighter like a Gripen
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Fact and without AIM-132 (or a nerfed version of) it’s going to be completely pointless to fly in ARB over the GR.1’s. The Buccaneer being in the similar boat with the S2 & S2B, at least the S2B has better missiles at the cost of a massive 1.4 Br increase (totally unwarranted IMO).
dont forgett the build in CMs wich makes room for extra bombs or missiles
Though missing Phimat for 216 large calibre chaff
Indeed but a handful extra bombs on an aircraft which already can’t reach bases with how quick games are doesn’t warrant a 1.4 Br increase and it still can only carry 2x AIM-9’s.
Holy conspiracy theory
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That is a very good point of the double standards of the snail as for a short time they said the aj168 would get it’s historical guidance but then changed it to be completed false
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Kh-38 can “only” lock targets within 20km, outside 20km it locks the ground just like AGM-65 and TV guided munitions, on top of beyond 20km being non-stabilized due to 20km being the maximum stabilization range of targeting systems.
Yes, it’s OP, as OP as all other stand-off weapon systems due to the lack of SPAA in the game’s top end.
Britain is getting another OP CAS system that won’t be killable when played anywhere close to correctly.
Calling it anything other than good or better is an insult, especially when Soviet CAS is AT BEST on-par with British CAS.
Soviets are not and have never been “the” most powerful tech tree in War Thunder. They are A good tech tree, they HAD the best aircraft until F-4J’s implementation.
They HAD the best helicopter until 5 nerfs to its AGM and powercreep from other weapon systems.
So yeah, until a point we get SPYDER level systems in War Thunder, Soviet CAS is as OP as everyone else.
The only tech tree, the EXCLUSIVE tech tree that lacks OP unkillable CAS is Japan, and that’s cause they didn’t make any IRL.
Yes, just as all stand-off weapons in War Thunder, they are not unique UNTIL a point in which we get SPAA that exceeds 20km range against supersonic jets AND we can lock targets beyond 20km.
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where do I start with this clown show.
this is incorrect out the gate because under PERFECT CIRCUMSTANCES which are unrealistic to even obtain this plane struggles to break 16km of range. It takes a full minute for the missile to reach the target at those ranges (which means a full minute of you lingering around waiting for your missile to hit the target).
The GR4 is always going to be within the presence of the Pantsir while engaging it, and the Tornado cannot dodge the Pantsir. so that’s you wrong out the gate.
this is also aggressively incorrect. For almost a year straight when the BVM was the best MBT in the game, and the 27K had every other CAS plane beaten badly. The USSR was the single best nation in the game being followed by Sweden which didn’t have the CAS to compete at their level. Now Russia is just a good nation, with the best dedicated CAS planes in the game.
this is wrong on so many levels too. The Mig 23MLD was for the entirety of the time it was around, the single best jet at its BR until the F-14A got added. Then when the Mig-29 got added it was the best top tier jet until the SMT got added and the F-16s subsequently got their FMs buffed.
this is provably wrong once again.
NATO nations more specifically the U.S. and France, have the best multirole jets in the game F-16C/AM, F-15E. But the USSR has the best dedicated strike aircraft in the game. The AGM-65 can outrange SPAA absolutely I will not say it cant. But unlike the KH38 the Maverick is slow, appears on a lot of Radars, and can easily be intercepted by any SACLOS AA. The KH38 meanwhile can operate from 20km+ (outside the range of every single AA in the game, while mavericks still need to enter VT1 range). Are far harder to hit due to their speed, and are far more consistent kills than Mavericks.
Brimstones have neither their range or speed, are on a worse platform, take longer to guide and are far more vulnerable. This plane is not good, this plane is in fact BAD. The best weapons on this plane objectively are the same weapons the GR1 uses down at 11.3. In EVERY regard for Ground Battles the Harrier GR7 has this plane beaten.
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Don’t think any of these weapons should have been added in the first place, WW2 props with bombs is bad enough from 100m away, now it’s modern jets with missiles from 10km away whilst MBTs are equally defenseless as a WW2 tank.
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I want nothing to do with weapon systems like this, especially if modelled in it’s true form. Just another reason to stay away from top tier.