Thanks for the input, correction made!
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correct : FREMMs in Marine nationale intercepted some ballistic missiles with the block 0. Those are so slow you don’t really need your SAM to be anti ballistic to intercept them however
I think they were early cold war SCUDS
As far as i’m aware, italian and french SAMP/T are equipped with block 1 from the get go, so it should in theory be able to intercept ballistic missile with a range comprised between 300 and 600km
Would love to see this in-game at some point.
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definetly did, the radar was by far the biggest obsolescence, the italian one will use the KRONOS GM HP while the french one will use the GF300.
quite a big improvement
yeah going from Arabel to GF300 is like switching from steam locomotive to some high speed train or something
What’s the predecessor of the KRONOS for the italians ?
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We were also using the arabel
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Well, got to see it on the bright side i suppose : with an old radar like Arabel, you won’t be wasting your missile by firing them at max range that’s for sure X)
Regarding the radars, i’ve got info from a few different sources, idk if they are all serious/credible or not :
Arabel :
- Range : 70km against aircraft, and 20km against missiles
- Band : X (Will translate to I or J band in game)
- Maximum elevation : 70°
- Maximum number of tracked targets : 50
- Guidance channels : 16
- Rotation speed : 60 RPM
Reference :
Kronos GM HP :
- Range : 300km (0.01m² RCS if i understand the doc correctly)
- Band : C (Will translate to G or H band in game)
- Maximum elevation : 90°
- Maximum number of tracked targets : >500
- Guidance channels : 30
- Rotation speed / Refresh rate : 1s for engaged target, 4s for non engaged targets (probably 60RPM)
Reference :
Ground Fire 300
- Range : 400km (RCS not specified)
- Band : S (Will translate to E or F band in game)
- Maximum elevation : 90°
- Maximum number of tracked targets : >1000
- Guidance channels : unknown
- Rotation speed : 60 RPM
Reference :
- https://www.thalesgroup.com/sites/default/files/database/document/2024-06/Ground%20Fire%20Datasheet.pdf
- https://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/02.surv2/karte004.fr.html (for the band, note that i think the source is correct, since sea fire 500 and ground fire 300 use the same tech and are both GaN AESAs. Both working in the same band would make sense)
All in all :
- Note that more modern radars get to longer wavelength, which means more range, but less angular resolution (not so much of a problem when your missiles are F&F and you have a decent software)
- Both Kronos and GF300 will be far enough to operate the system, while Arabel won’t deliver the full potential of the Aster-30 B1 and B1NT
- Both italian and french radars (Kronos and GF300) use Gallium Nitride (GaN)
If you spot a correction to make / a small error, feel free to share
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I’ve seen reports of SAMP/T NG’s Radar system being Ku or Ka, but I’d need to go verify which specific system they reference.
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That’s also technically correct :
Ku band is used in the Aster-30 B1 ARH seeker
Ka band is used in the Aster-30 B1 NT ARH seeker
Should translate to J and K bands respectively. Idk what current AAM already present in game use (i think MICA uses J band as well, since the seekers are basically identical with Aster-30 B0 and B1)
Multiple articles mention it, but i’ll try to find a correct source and post it here when i find it
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That’s a nice suggestion. I hope the devs hear of it so they can see that it only carries ASTER 30 and not 15, as I suspect they intended to add when mentioning it in the dev stream
I don’t think Patriot like spaa makes any sense in things like ground rb, so if it was going only to get aster 30 it would end up in an air sead mode thingy.
Well considering gaijin plans for the future… It does. Do you really think there will be any sense of balance when it’ll be 150km+ ARMs VS 40km SPAAs?
So basically you just need to have 2 planes in the air (1 that yeets ARMs and one that yeets AGMs) and your game is doomed to be destroyed by CAS and SPAA denial.
Currently all ARHs in the game use the same I-band.
When MICA first came out, there was a report that it should be changed to J-band, but it seems that it hasn’t been changed yet.
I think they are keeping the same band value for all ARH missiles for balance and fairness reasons.
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All fox 3s also had the same seekers and some thought that developers will keep it the same until last patch when MICA EM got its reduced seeker width. So never say never.
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I didn’t say “never” specifically.
The reason I replied was because all ARH seekers are using the same band right now and I just wanted to let him know which band it is.
And even if MICA’s seeker width changed, the type of band is the same, so this point should still be changed.
https://x.com/MarineNationale/status/1950474444985815472
in the link they shared, they specify that they shot down a mach 2.7 missile at 4m altitude using an Aster, proving once and for all that at least over the sea, multipath isn’t really a problem for these modern seekers
“Lors de cette édtition 2025, 12 missiles anti-aérien ont été tirés par une dizaine de navires. La Normandie a intercepté, avec un missile Aster-30, une cible supersonique lancée à Mach 2,7 volant à environ quatre mètres au dessus de la surface”
Could be translated to : “During this 2025 edition (formidable shield), 12 anti-air missiles were shot by 10 ships. The Normandie intercepted, using an Aster-30 missile, a target travelling at mach 2.7 and flying roughly 4 meters high”
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Accodring to Ukrainean & US sources Samp/t suffers massive software problems and other issues. The system doesn’t work. Even inferior to decades older Patriot.
Also this class of long range SAMs won’t be ingame for a long time. This thread is a bit over-optimistic.
And the source for that is… ?
Ukraine seems quite OK with the SAMP/T, although it seems to struggle against hypersonic threats (PK not very high), which is totally fine considering it wasn’t built with these threats in mind, as we were still in the late 1990s, early 2000s).
Which is why we are seeing this happening : https://x.com/DGA/status/1950607610463314366
as well as the new AESA ground fire 300.
As a matter of fact, between the italian and french versions + the different generations, i don’t think the system will be just one vehicle in the tech tree
Patriot’s PK against such threats is most likely not perfect as well (otherwise no hypersonic russian stuff would hit in the covered areas, and yet), meanwhile the wunderwaffe “100% interception rate” IRIS-T SLM is tasked with shooting down easier targets such as drones, glide bombs or cruise missiles.
EDIT : checked on the software issue
It was first mentionned in the WSJ (talk of a source)
That being said, if i do my digging on secondary source as well it would seem the infamous terrific issue was due to the way the battery was assembled quite in urgency and with limited numbers. The problem was fixed in… a few weeks
That issue aside, they seem happy with the system performance, the other problem being the limited number of missiles, of which the production is ramping up as we speak, although this isn’t an issue with the quality of the missile per se
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