The Sagittario 2 shouldn't be moving to 9.3

The Sagittario 2, a subsonic fighter with alright acceleration is going to be moved to 9.3 if the upcoming BR changes are set to come to the game in their current form. It makes absolutely no sense for the Sagittario 2 to be at the same BR as the Ariete, it’s direct upgrade. The Sagittario 2 already felt over-tiered at 9.0 and putting it at 9.3 is only going to make it more frustrating to play. This puts the Sagittario 2 in the same BR range as the F-5C, MiG-21SMT, and F-8E.
Maybe it’s just me, but it feels like a kick in the shin to Italian players.

Thanks for reading, feel free to leave your thoughts and feedback.


The treatment that good turn fighters get in this game is ridiculous. Gaijin has a bad habit of letting the worst players determine an aircrafts “efficiency”.


The BR of Italian planes is exaggeratedly high.

And ever since I started playing warthunder a couple of years ago the Italian planes suffered from over BR and guess what the situation has not changed after years, as always the developers actively ignore the problem.

It makes me sick to see Italy reduced in this way.

Comuqnue you are not the first to point out the problem and be ignored.

Just look at the King too. 2000 Italian BR 2.3 while the Swedish BR 2.0… apparently the rules do not apply to italy… 2 weights and 2 measures.

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They earned those BR’s.

And more credible to say that the players of the major nations suck at the game, you have no idea the amount of times they could have killed me, but in the end because of stupid mistakes they crashed to the ground or got themselves killed.

And in any case in my opinion being a capable pilot should not be punished by raising the BR, on the contrary enemies should learn from you or their own mistakes and not make them all the time.

Also there has to be a limit to raising the BR of aircraft because then you end up in situations like Sagittarius 2: sub-sonic fighter fighting hyper-sonic aircraft with search missiles, no chance of victory. If you get killed by a sub-sonic fighter like Sagittarius 2 you only prove your incompetence in the game.

The BRs of the first Italian jet planes should be corrected like this:

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100% agree.
Although I will say the Ariete absolutely dogs on any subsonic, so 9.3 is actually pretty fair from my experience. Full downtiers in the Ariete are absolutely criminal considering nothing can do anything against you.
As for everything else you’re spot on. The G.91Y and G.91YS are so hilariously Over-BR’d its bonkers. The F-104G could also use to go down to 10.3 as well.


Explain to me how the subsonic G.91YS belongs at 9.7 when the MiG-21S (R-13-300) is also a 9.7, or how the Sagittario 2 is the same BR as it’s Premium counterpart, the Ariete which is superior to the Sagittario 2 in every way.
Most Italian aircraft are so stupidly overtiered it’s absurd.


I like the look of this bar the Ariete and I think the Sagittario is also pretty good but I dont have it, I think those should stay at their former br’s of 9.3 and 9.0 respectively.

The vampire change looks good too as its chief anologue the F80C-10 is a lower br and arguably better (also benefits me as a brit main because our Vampire is the worst one in-game at the same br as the rest).

The YS is too high for what it is.

Ariete in my opinion has to go down if America has planes like the A-4E at BR8.7 or like the F-4D1 at BR 9.0 and Russia has planes like the Yak-38 at BR 9.3 then Ariete has to go down to BR 9.0

For once the players of the great nations must learn how to play the game, it is not possible that it is always Italy that loses out.

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The A-4E isn’t a very good dogfighter though and has a mediocre engine.
As for the F4D yeah no I agree there.

My first and major disappointment with Sagi 2 was when they removed AP shells, that was a major nerf that limits the plane for air role ONLY

g91ys not only is slow but also its afterburner overheats fast, not allowing the player to use for decent amount of time

totally agree

I’ve put a talisman on the Saggitario 2, and have made it my second most victorious vehicle in the game over the past month. The only reason I’m ever able to kill a supersonic is because they do one of a few things.

  1. Force a full commit head-on which I win.
  2. Decide that a MiG-21 can turnfight it because “Muh cropped delta wing, high AoA” and pull a cobra right into my gun sight.
  3. I bait them on my six and force a slow overshoot after bleeding some of their energy.
    It is absolutely a pilot skill issue.

The MiG-15/17 and Sabres are the perfect contemporaries for the Sag 2, and the fact it has to fight AIM-9L’s almost every match is criminal. All it takes is a pilot smart enough to not just immediately try to turnfight you in one of those and use the upsides of their aircraft, like speed or vertical energy retention.
The Ariete on the other hand having 50% extra thrust makes it very good, as its hard to run out of speed, so it would be too good to face those subsonics every match. Also, the fact that you can pay money for the exact same aircraft with literally the only difference being 50% more thrust and 5% more weight is criminally P2W.

The reason aircraft like this go up so high is because they face inexperienced premium players who just bought their first jet or brute forced their way to the top by base bombing. They lack the comprehension to understand that there is more than one type of dogfighting style.
Also, the fact that Italy is a minor nation, and the Sag 2 is a unique jet with its own playstyle draws many experienced players to it, which inflates its stats.
Gaijin has a habit of not actually analyzing a planes performance, and only analyzing its stats. (CL-13 Mk4) Of course if you put 5000 hour ace pilots in a plane instead of Timmy in “muh brrrrt machine” its gonna have a higher KDR, that doesn’t make it a better plane, the pilot is just superior. Now if only they would analyze the stat of the AIM-9L having a 0.95 p(K) against Korean war jets, and realize that’s not acceptable.
We can see the same situation occur in the Japanese tech tree, like Warpig_ said, its the turnfighter problem. The A6M5 has been steadily increase in BR over the years to ridiculous heights, to the point it is now considered a contemporary of such things as the Bf-109K4 and LF Mk.9. Just because American and German pilots can’t figure out that they should stop trying to turnfight an aircraft they have lost 100 consecutive turnfights to doesn’t make it OP.

Re. doesn’t stand for king, it stands for Reggiane which gets it’s name from reggio emilia, minor thing but it annoyed me. but yes lower the BR for most planes