I mean, I beat both in Ta-152H more often than not, but it’s not easy ever since Yak-3U and Spitfire Mk IX became head-on monsters due to Gaijin’s dumb as hell weapon design.
Gaijin is unfortunately not willing to make Shvak anything but best 20mm of WW2 and not willing to remove the insane aerodynamic/structural damage of non-M-geschoss rounds in general, but even M-geschoss is overperforming in this regard. When a single hit to the wing root makes it all black and sends you tumbling through the air, there is no point in flying anything bigger and better armed. Single shot will either end you or remove any combat capability from your plane, and the fact Yak is tiny doesn’t make it take more damage, since single hit is death to P-47 too.
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MG151 do deal a lot of a damage, the problem is that you don’t need all of that to deal with a fighter (but it makes sense since they were designed to deal with bombers).
I’ve seen videos of spifire wings getting destroyed by singular 20mm mine shell so I know that’s accurate.
However I do not know the performance of other 20mm. In any case it doesn’t really matter: ballistics are the most important thing either way since most of the time a critted plane is out of the fight anyway.
In any case rn the 20mm MG151 are performing as they should. The balistic disadvantage is absolutely historical and we just have to cope with it.
Or do we? You see there is a suuuuper easy fix for this: MG151 were made to operate both 20mm and 15mm shells. You literally just needed to change the barrel. It stated in basically all MG151 armed figher’s manual (even for italian planes like G55).
The planes were made to be able to use the 15mm bullets and I think Gaijin should gave the option for us to chose which calibre to use.
15mm MG151 are the guns with the best ballistics. The obviously won’t hit as hard, but they’d give a very interesting change of gameplay.
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Noticed this in SB last night. Got pounced on by a Ta-152 and luckily only got grazed by a 20mm. That said 50% of my Mk XVI’s wingtip was black and I had to waddle my way home with full rudder.
Although the Hispano was arguably the best cannon of the war but the damage is extreme… 2x 20mm’s shouldn’t be ripping wings clean off in short bursts like they are now and as we’ve said the Shvak is hilariously OP.
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You’ve missed the point.
Right now there’s barely any difference between 20mm and 37mm. Russian 25mm with 13g of TNT deals exact same damage as 37mm M-geschoss.
All 20mm HE in game basically deal the same, ridiculously high damage.
Every single one of them, now including MG151 is absolutely overperforming, and so do 12.7-15mm explosive bullets (they are weaker than 20mm, but not by much).
When a single hit takes you out of the fight, it no longer really matters how many guns are firing. All that matters is your size, there’s no disadvantage to being fragile and small, when the alternative is being equally fragile and big.
MG151/20 is the worst because it has by far the worst ballistics (even AP has much worse ballistics than Ho-5 80g HE shell!), same damage as everyone else, and some of the worst belts - because in this game only HE counts and stealth is the only belt that will not destroy your muzzle velocity with M-geschoss.
This means Re.2005 armanent is actually pretty bad.
Things like this should not be happening (single Shvak hit):
The fix is very simple:
- adjust the ballistics of other 20mm guns to realistic values (Shvak 20mm API has 0 reason to be ballistically superior to MG151/20 AP-I that weights significantly more)
- adjust the damage of all HE rounds to properly reflect their fragmentation and explosive potential, 20mm M-geschoss was excellent vs fighters but mid at best vs bombers, Shvak was bad vs everything etc
End result: f.e. if 37mm is 100% damage and we are not trying to make damage more dependent on what is hit and where, 30mm M-geschoss should be 75%, russian 25mm around 43%, russian 23mm around 30%, 20mm M-geschoss 21%, Shvak 13%.
Fighters shouldn’t be losing wings in 1 20mm hit
A few should be needed, f.e. 3-4 M-geschoss, 6 Shvak etc. 37mm impact should be game ending, 30mm - rarely survivable.
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For HE:
Shvaks and other russian 20mm have the same shell weight than 20mm MG151: 0.09kg. However they are 15 m/s faster. I really don’t see how the balistics could be wrong.
Obviously I’m not counting the belt speed bug. Unfortunatey only stealth belts for MG151 reach 785m/s, while all the others are stuck at 720m/s
For AP:
Shvaks fire a similar bullet (0.1kg vs 0.12kg on the MG151), but 80m/s faster. Surely it will have worse drop, but it’s simply faster and have a better trajectory in normal engagements distance and this is the most important aspect for the gun.
I don’t know if the damage is historical or not because I haven’t informed myself, but it really doesn’t matter here: any 20mm HE hit will deal enough damage to either kill you or destroy your flight performance even if you “nerf” them.
MG151 have worse balistics. The only way to change this is by using the 15mm shells.
Perhaps if the various shells have different rotation speed one might argue that the slower rotating shell should be less accurate and have more drag, but we’d need to do some serious calculation here.
I’m sorry, I don’t want to be rude, but if you want to keep discussing HE filler effects we should move to the dedicated forum post since this place is to discus on the Re.2005 VDM and not HE shell performance of all props.
Why are you so adamant on making the game as insufferable as possible to play for everyone? noone cares about your desire to larp in a third person plane game with mixed teams on random locations. Guns doing consistent damage is very healthy for gameplay. Noone likes aiming perfectly, hitting your shot and then getting nothing but hits bc ur guns decided to not do anything. For the sake of balance all gun damage should be roughly homogenized in a state where every cannon starting at 20mms one shots reliably, like it is right now. By basing damage off how guns performed irl ur gonna end up making entire nations unplayable. Its a game, it needs to be fun and balanced, if ur so caught up in the larp that u psyoped yourself into thinking 20s doing no damage is a good thing then go play hoi4.
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i like how he completely ignored everything you said before that
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That guy is unfortunately the “peak war thunder community experience”.
0 thinking, 0 effort, 0 understanding, 100% outrage because somebody suggested that maybe 20mm shells could be different from each other, giving aircraft their own unique strengths and weaknesses.
Anyway, Re.2005 would be much more fun if the fact it has 3 20mm and 2 12.7mm actually made a difference and also if being a bigger plane gave you a chance to tank some damage, because right now, size is purely detrimental. P-47 doesn’t feel any stronger than A6M5, actually it feels much weaker as it has the same number of modules, just bigger, so it’s easier to damage same spot twice, which will turn a 70% chance of death to 100%.
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Yes… dumping all of your ammo into one plane to maybe get a kill is a peak experience.
Guns doing “too much” damage is a lot better than whatever was up with early real shatter implementation.
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Sorry I didn’t have the correct opinion.
Only MG151 should do damage and the Ta-152H needs to be down-tiered to 5.0 and have a 3000hp engine.
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Oh look, we’ve got another one with peak WT community reading comprehension!
Sorry mate, you used to be funny, now this is outright pathetic.
EDIT: flagged by trolls
yak 3u and LF MK9 are just under tiered
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Well, they weren’t.
Mineshells were developed to increase the lethality of shells against full metal aircraft, which were very damage resistant to fragmentation unlike early wooden aircraft’s.
Other than that the MG 151/20 and MG FF/M were just regular 20mm cannons.
Since Mineshells destroy a planes structure and bombers have a lot more than that than fighters, Mineshells didnt even have any particular advantage compared to regular explosive-incendiary shells.
Specifically because bombers have a lot of fuel tanks compare to their size, 20mm Incendiary rounds were developeded to increase lethality against bombers.
In that regard you could even argue that 20mm Mineshells were particularly effective against fighters while 20mm Incendiary rounds were particularly effective against bombers.
37mm was always the anti-bomber caliber while 20mm and 30mm were more universal, but generally better against either bomber or fighter.
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oh my bad. Thanks for the info. I guess I mixed my memories on various weapons.
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@Smin1080p_WT I understand that the time zone can be a problem, but to say 2/3 letters based on the answer is so long that soon they will be fighting over who should be right? At least if that’s the case, give them a valid reason for doing so.
buddy, coping like this will not make you less abysmal at head ons
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Strong arguments I see. Just as strong as your reading comprehension. Keep trying, buddy!
Statcards are completely incorrect and you should never look at numbers that they are showing
Use legal assistance tool called WTRTI to check real plane performance instead.
VDM is much better than Series 0 and in reality can achieve 28 m/s climbrate (and Series 0 can only achieve around 22 m/s)
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How that I have the VDM in my hands I honestly feel it’s pretty good, it has very good instant and comparable sustained turn rate compared to the series 0 and has a slightly better climb rate, I’d say it’s slightly better but still should be 5.7. and it seems to have drag at high speed.
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My entire issue with this plane is it dies to a single shot from Yak-3U which is still 5.7 after years of domination.
And Gaijin continues listening to hysterical dummies who follow the logic of “every HE shell has to 1-shot because that’s balanced but the fact Brits have 50% HE that doesn’t fuse on soviet fighters while Soviets have 100% HE is not unbalanced, just as the fact some aircraft are a lot smaller than others or the fsct the performance metrics differ drastically, but HE shell effectiveness has to be always the same”.
Seriously, if that’s not limited brainpower, I don’t know what is.
VDM has no real niche. It’s not well armed. It’s basically an LF Mk IX sidegrade. I’m not saying it’s bad, just… not really interesting.
Old Re.2005 pre-compression nerf at least was damn good at high speed. I guess I’ll just stick to G.55, even though it faces Yak-3 constantly and also gets reliably 1-shot like it’s made of paper, but at least I can do some crazy high speed attacks, haha.
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