The Rafael Python: Variants, history, preformance, and game implementation discussion

Patriotic_FR · September 2, 2023, 8:17pm

Otherwise, good thread on the Python, i was waiting for someone to make a new one :)

Small questions: Are you sure the Python 5 use thrust vectoring? I though the python familty managed its maneuvrability only with aerodynamic surface and not with thrust vectoring.

Regarding the Python 4 for war thunder , it’s even better then the R73 we have in game rn with better IRCCM and better maneuvrability, better off boresigth capabilities (60° compared to the 40° on the R73)

I don’t want to see it unless they also implement AIM-9M/MAGIC 2 with IRCCM/PL-8B/ AAM-3.

The R73 is already a step above other missile rn so adding one even better without adding counter would be really unfair for all other countries.

The Python 5 is indeed more similar to IRIS-T/AIM-9X/MICA IR/ASRAAM/PL-10 in capability so not for now.

aSaraph · September 2, 2023, 8:33pm

thank you!

From the video of the Tejas test fire, it looks like it uses thrust vectoring and it would just make sense as a 5th gen air to air missile

I’ll definitely read through it and maybe add some stuff from there, id want to get the original creator’s permission beforehand tho

Definitely valid points, if I could I’d give the F16C and Barak II 9Ms to counter the R-73

Patriotic_FR · September 2, 2023, 10:56pm

Could you link the video pls or put it in the main post so everyone can see it

aSaraph · September 2, 2023, 11:10pm

Patriotic_FR · September 6, 2023, 1:36pm

Python 4 values and data in the game files:

Spoiler

{
“rocketGun”: true,
“preset_cost”: 20,
“bullets”: 1,
“shotFreq”: 1000.25,
“sound”: “weapon.rocketgun_132”,
“helicopterGroup”: 2,
“mesh”: “python_3”,
“tags”: {},
“rocket”: {
“bulletName”: “il_pyton_3”,
“statType”: “hydra”,
“caliber”: 0.16,
“length”: 3.0,
“WdK”: [
0.1,
0.1,
0.1
],
“CxK”: 2.65,
“wingAreaMult”: 1.45,
“finsAoaHor”: 0.22,
“finsAoaVer”: 0.22,
“finsLatAccel”: 60.0,
“distFromCmToStab”: 0.1,
“mass”: 105.0,
“massEnd”: 81.0,
“massEnd1”: 63.0,
“timeFire”: 3.0,
“timeFire1”: 5.0,
“force”: 17600.0,
“force1”: 7920.0,
“fireDelay”: 0.0,
“timeLife”: 20.0,
“useStartSpeed”: true,
“startSpeed”: 0.0,
“machMax”: 4.0,
“endSpeed”: 1000.0,
“maxDistance”: 30000.0,
“minDistance”: 30.0,
“rangeMax”: 30000.0,
“loadFactorMax”: 50.0,
“guidanceType”: “ir”,
“guidanceSfx”: “alarm_con_scan”,
“effectOffset”: [
-1.4,
0.0,
0.0
],
“normalizationPreset”: “heat”,
“ricochetPreset”: “he”,
“groundRicochetPreset”: “he”,
“secondaryShattersPreset”: “ap”,
“stabilityThreshold”: 0.05,
“stabilityCaliberToArmorThreshold”: 5.0,
“stabilityReductionAfterRicochet”: 0.5,
“stabilityReductionAfterPenetration”: 0.15,
“bulletType”: “aam”,
“explosiveType”: “hbx”,
“explosiveMass”: 5.0,
“maxDeltaAngle”: 0.0,
“dragCx”: 0.018,
“spawnExplosionFx”: false,
“spawnExplosionWreckage”: false,
“selfDestructionFx”: “explosion_air_selfexplosion_big”,
“explosionEffect”: “explosion_midair_medium”,
“groundCollisionEffect”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_he”,
“ricochetEffect”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_ap”,
“waterCollisionEffect”: “hit_133_160mm_water_he”,
“explosionPatchRadius”: 4.0,
“waterRicochetEffect”: “hit_133_160mm_water_ap”,
“groundRicochetEffect”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_ap”,
“visualShattersWaterOffset”: 1.2,
“visualShattersGroundOffset”: 1.2,
“fireEffect”: “fires_exhaust_jet_mach_discs_small”,
“smokeEffect”: “smoke_rocket_tail_light”,
“smokeEffect2”: “”,
“hazeEffect”: “haze_missile”,
“endSmokeViscosity”: 0.05,
“distanceFuse”: false,
“hitPowerMult”: 400.0,
“fuseDelayDist”: 1.0,
“explodeTreshold”: [
0.1,
0.01
],
“hasProximityFuse”: true,
“explodeHitPower”: 550.0,
“explodeArmorPower”: 75.0,
“explodeRadius”: [
1.0,
3.5
],
“rendinstDamageRadius”: 9.0,
“shutterDamage”: true,
“shutterDamageRadius”: 17.0,
“shutterAmount”: 2000,
“shutterArmorPower”: 12.0,
“shutterHit”: 10.0,
“price”: 3000.0,
“amountPerTier”: 1.0,
“iconType”: “missile_type_b_air_to_air”,
“arcadeProp”: {
“finsAoaHor”: 0.22,
“finsAoaVer”: 0.22
},
“guidance”: {
“warmUpTime”: 1.0,
“workTime”: 20.0,
“uncageBeforeLaunch”: true,
“breakLockMaxTime”: 3.0,
“irSeeker”: {
“rangeBand0”: 11000.0,
“rangeBand1”: 3800.0,
“rangeBand2”: 11000.0,
“rangeBand3”: 0.0,
“rangeBand6”: 1000.0,
“rangeBand7”: 6000.0,
“rangeMax”: 100000.0,
“fov”: 3.6,
“gateWidth”: 1.2,
“minAngleToSun”: 15.0,
“lockAngleMax”: 60.0,
“angleMax”: 90.0,
“rateMax”: 45.0,
“prolongationTimeMax”: 3.0,
“bandMaskToReject”: 4,
“designationSourceTypeMask”: 18,
“constantDesignationSourceTypeMask”: 2
},
“guidanceAutopilot”: {
“timeOut”: 0.2,
“propNavMult”: 4.0,
“reqAccelMax”: 50.0,
“accelControlProp”: 0.0036,
“accelControlIntg”: 0.0341,
“accelControlDiff”: 0.0007,
“baseIndSpeed”: 1800.0,
“accelControlIntgLim”: 1.0
},
“table0”: {
“altitude”: 1000.0,
“fighterMach”: [
0.9,
1.2
],
“targetMach”: [
0.9,
0.9
],
“targetMach2Mult”: -1.0,
“rangeMin”: [
1700.0,
250.0,
2600.0,
250.0
],
“rangeMax”: [
3336.41,
15258.8,
3855.71,
15808.1
],
“rangeMaxAltDiff”: [
500.0,
1200.0
],
“timeMax”: [
11.1408,
19.9167,
11.5116,
19.9215
],
“timeMaxAltDiff”: [
500.0,
1.4
]
},
“table1”: {
“altitude”: 5000.0,
“fighterMach”: [
0.9,
1.2
],
“targetMach”: [
0.9,
0.9
],
“targetMach2Mult”: -1.0,
“rangeMin”: [
1700.0,
250.0,
2600.0,
250.0
],
“rangeMax”: [
5344.14,
16967.8,
6079.45,
17700.2
],
“rangeMaxAltDiff”: [
500.0,
1200.0
],
“timeMax”: [
16.728,
19.9584,
17.327,
19.9636
],
“timeMaxAltDiff”: [
500.0,
1.4
]
},
“table2”: {
“altitude”: 10000.0,
“fighterMach”: [
0.9,
1.2
],
“targetMach”: [
0.9,
0.9
],
“targetMach2Mult”: -1.0,
“rangeMin”: [
1700.0,
250.0,
2600.0,
250.0
],
“rangeMax”: [
8911.13,
19714.4,
9887.7,
20690.9
],
“rangeMaxAltDiff”: [
500.0,
1200.0
],
“timeMax”: [
19.9698,
19.9652,
19.9658,
19.9634
],
“timeMaxAltDiff”: [
500.0,
1.4
]
},
“table3”: {
“altitude”: 15000.0,
“fighterMach”: [
0.9,
1.2
],
“targetMach”: [
0.9,
0.9
],
“targetMach2Mult”: -1.0,
“rangeMin”: [
1700.0,
250.0,
2600.0,
250.0
],
“rangeMax”: [
12023.9,
22338.9,
13244.6,
23559.6
],
“rangeMaxAltDiff”: [
500.0,
1200.0
],
“timeMax”: [
19.9876,
19.9176,
19.9721,
19.9128
],
“timeMaxAltDiff”: [
500.0,
1.4
]
}
},
“stabilityRicochetModifier”: {
“mod1”: [
0.0,
0.05
],
“mod2”: [
20.0,
0.1
],
“mod3”: [
[
30.0,
0.2
],
[
45.0,
0.3
]
]
},
“pressureDamage”: {
“damageType”: “pressure”
},
“collisions”: {
“default”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_ap”
},
“horLandMesh”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_ap”
},
“soil”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_ap”
},
“dirt”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_ap”
},
“road”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_ap”
},
“roadSoil”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_dirt_ap”
},
“bricks_red”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_ap”
},
“sand”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_sand_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_sand_ap”
},
“duneSand”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_sand_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_sand_ap”
},
“roadSand”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_sand_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_sand_ap”
},
“quickSand”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_sand_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_sand_ap”
},
“snow”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_ap”
},
“ice”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_ap”
},
“roadSnow”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_ap”
},
“snowLower”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_ap”
},
“glass”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_ap”
},
“wood”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_wood_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_wood_ap”
},
“steel”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_ap”
},
“metal”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_ap”
},
“tank_structural_steel”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_ap”
},
“aluminum_armor”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_metal_ap”
},
“tank_rubber_screens”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_ap”
},
“buildings”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_ap”
},
“verLandMesh”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_ap”
},
“concrete”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_ap”
},
“rocks”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_ap”
},
“rocksSlippery”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_ap”
},
“fabric”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_stone_ap”
},
“stone_snow”: {
“fx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_he”,
“ricochetFx”: “hit_133_160mm_snow_ap”
}
},
“shatterCollisions”: {
“groundCollisionEffect”: “hit_12_18mm_dirt_dust_ap”,
“waterCollisionEffect”: “hit_8_11mm_water”,
“default”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_dirt_dust_ap”
},
“horLandMesh”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_dirt_dust_ap”
},
“soil”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_dirt_dust_ap”
},
“dirt”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_dirt_dust_ap”
},
“road”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_dirt_dust_ap”
},
“bricks_red”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_red_brick_dust_ap”
},
“roadSoil”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_dirt_dust_ap”
},
“sand”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_sand_dust_ap”
},
“duneSand”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_sand_dust_ap”
},
“roadSand”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_sand_dust_ap”
},
“quickSand”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_sand_dust_ap”
},
“snow”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_snow_dust_ap”
},
“ice”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_snow_dust_ap”
},
“roadSnow”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_snow_dust_ap”
},
“snowLower”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_snow_dust_ap”
},
“glass”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“wood”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_wood_ap”
},
“steel”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“metal”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“tank_structural_steel”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“aluminum_armor”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“tank_rubber_screens”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_stone_dust_ap”
},
“buildings”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_stone_dust_ap”
},
“verLandMesh”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_stone_dust_ap”
},
“concrete”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_stone_dust_ap”
},
“rocks”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_stone_dust_ap”
},
“rocksSlippery”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_stone_dust_ap”
},
“fabric”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_stone_dust_ap”
},
“stone_snow”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_snow_dust_ap”
},
“armorPierceLowCal”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“armorPierceMedCal”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“armorPierceHiCal”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“armorNPLowCal”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“armorNPMedCal”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
},
“armorNPHiCal”: {
“fx”: “hit_12_18mm_metal_ap”
}
},
“DamageParts”: {
“body”: {
“hp”: 50.0,
“armorClass”: “tank_structural_steel”,
“armorThickness”: 1.0
}
},
“DamageEffects”: {
“part”: {
“name”: “body”,
“onHit”: [
{
“damageType”: “generic”,
“expl”: 0.05,
“fire”: 0.45,
“break”: 0.5,
“damage”: 3.0,
“fHitCritical”: true
},
{
“damageType”: “generic”,
“expl”: 0.5,
“fire”: 0.3,
“break”: 0.2,
“damage”: 30.0,
“fHitCritical”: true
},
{
“damageType”: “explosion”,
“expl”: 0.45,
“fire”: 0.45,
“break”: 0.1,
“damage”: 50.0,
“fHitCritical”: true
},
{
“damageType”: “cumulative”,
“expl”: 0.4,
“fire”: 0.4,
“break”: 0.1,
“damage”: 100.0,
“fHitCritical”: true
}
],
“onKill”: {
“expl”: 0.05,
“fire”: 0.05,
“break”: 0.9,
“fHitCritical”: true
}
}
},
“damage”: {
“shatter”: {
“useRealShatters”: true,
“countPortion”: 0.15,
“segment”: [
{
“radiusScale”: 1.0,
“penetrationScale”: 1.5,
“damageScale”: 1.5,
“angles”: [
0.0,
9.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.1
},
{
“angles”: [
10.0,
29.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.0
},
{
“radiusScale”: 1.0,
“penetrationScale”: 1.0,
“damageScale”: 1.0,
“angles”: [
30.0,
124.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.35
},
{
“radiusScale”: 1.0,
“penetrationScale”: 1.5,
“damageScale”: 1.5,
“angles”: [
45.0,
70.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.05
},
{
“angles”: [
125.0,
169.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.0
},
{
“radiusScale”: 1.0,
“penetrationScale”: 1.0,
“damageScale”: 1.0,
“angles”: [
170.0,
189.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.1
},
{
“angles”: [
190.0,
234.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.0
},
{
“radiusScale”: 1.0,
“penetrationScale”: 1.0,
“damageScale”: 1.0,
“angles”: [
235.0,
329.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.35
},
{
“radiusScale”: 1.0,
“penetrationScale”: 1.5,
“damageScale”: 1.5,
“angles”: [
290.0,
315.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.05
},
{
“angles”: [
330.0,
349.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.0
},
{
“radiusScale”: 1.0,
“penetrationScale”: 1.5,
“damageScale”: 1.5,
“angles”: [
350.0,
359.0
],
“countPortion”: 0.1
}
]
},
“shatterDamage”: {
“breachConeAngle”: 45.0
},
“explosive”: {
“radius”: 0.15,
“offset”: 0.9
}
},
“proximityFuse”: {
“timeOut”: 0.5,
“radius”: 7.0,
“detectShells”: true,
“shellCaliberRange”: [
0.08,
0.2
]
},
“armorpower”: {
“ArmorPower0m”: [
28.0,
10.0
],
“ArmorPower100m”: [
25.0,
100.0
],
“ArmorPower7000m”: [
23.0,
7000.0
],
“ArmorPower10000m”: [
0.0,
10000.0
]
},
“hitpower”: {
“HitPower0m”: [
400.0,
500.0
],
“HitPower10000m”: [
400.0,
10000.0
]
}
}
}

From now it’s a 50G missile with a lot of speed and range.

aSaraph · September 6, 2023, 2:10pm

Hopefully they add it this update, but they already gave the Barak II 9Ms so who knows

WreckingAres283 · September 12, 2023, 3:58pm

Tested them on current dev, these missile should def not be added with similar counters for other Nations O_o

aSaraph · September 12, 2023, 5:19pm

Do you have a link to the user mission?

WreckingAres283 · September 12, 2023, 5:46pm

Here is the link to the user mission:

Instal it on the dev server. not in the live server files, for Python-4s on you have to open the flightModel file from the content folder of the mission: gameData → flightModels → su_57a BLK → open it, scroll down and change all four "blk:t=“gameData/Weapons/rocketGuns/su_r_73.blk” " to → "blk:t=“gameData/Weapons/rocketGuns/il_pyton_4.blk” "

aSaraph · September 12, 2023, 6:40pm

Thank you! Uploaded the modded one to WTLive for anyone to test, appreciate the help!
https://live.warthunder.com/post/1083554/en/

dotEXCEL · September 27, 2023, 8:39pm

can you please provide a source that says that P5’s have thrust vectoring?
cuz the source you listed: Python 5 says:

Both missiles rely on aero dynamics rather than on vector steering - a technology which suffers from several problems such as relying on the rocket’s fuel that can run out and leave the missile ineffective. The Python 5 missile’s aero dynamical configuration contributes a lot to its performance even when its rocket stops working. Moreover, using the same configuration saves millions of dollars in the R&D process.

Patriotic_FR · September 27, 2023, 11:02pm

The Python 5 doesn’t have thrust vectoring, it uses it’s 18 control surfaces to pull around 50G single plane or 70G dual plane.
The missile should be able to roll on itself to use the dual plane maneuvrability all the time.
It’s uses almost the same aerodynamics and motor than the Python 4.

aSaraph · September 28, 2023, 12:10am

Apologies, I was under the assumption it does use vectoring. I had another source that said it did but couldn’t verify it.

dotEXCEL · September 28, 2023, 12:29am

thanks for clearing this up. thank you o7

DracoMindC · September 28, 2023, 12:53am

its not 18 control surfaces its 18 aerodynamic control surfaces, control surfaces are 6 total with 4 as the wings and 2 behind the canards/wings that control roll

x-GeeNo_MS-x · January 3, 2024, 4:23am

well 9M implemented, Magic-2 with IRCCM implemented, AAM-3 implemented (comtemporaneus with the Python-4) it sounds like that the next advance IR missile to come in the next major update in march is the Python-4. i hope it gets added in march it would be really cool to see it in game!

Patriotic_FR · January 3, 2024, 12:05pm

The Magic 2 still need:

a better IRCCM (smaller IFOV aswell as the same type of flare rejection the 9M has).
50G (aka dual plane maneuvrabilty)
Turn quicker off the rail
Lower minimum range (aka warhead activationg from 1.8s to 1.2s).

The AAM-3 still need a wider gimbal (around 70° iirc) and they need to implement dual-band IRCCM in the game instead of transforming this kind of IRCCM into the flare rejection the 9M has.

The Python 4 will still be better than both of them with superior maneuvrability (50-70G) and better kinematics. It’s IRCCM also has to be reworked