no
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It isn’t though. By sukhois own numbers its rcs is similar to a naked hornet. It’s not a stealth fighter, it’s at best a low observable 4.5 gen
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This isn’t the place to argue this. The numbers you’re quoting are for the PAK FA prototype patent which was leaked, the actual RCS is likely far lower and the production aircraft saw major redesigns after the Indians left the project. What we see in low rate production currently has a myriad of obvious visual changes to the design that greatly enhance radar cross section performance.
The Su-57 by all means, is a 5th generation stealth fighter. Let’s move the discussion to DMs or elsewhere if you have anything further on it… Let’s keep the discussion about the R-77.
The R-77M using a lower RCS fin design is a by-product of Russia’s shift towards stealth fighters. Nothing more.
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its not a stealth fighter though at best its a 4.5
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You have real evidence? Or you’ll just keep referring to Sukhoi’s patent. Who will never tell you the real RCS
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we ain’t trolling your just wrong
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No, just R-77-1 does not fit into the Su-57 weapon bay, folding fins they would complicate the mechanism and reduce reliability. And have much more RCS what classic fins…
And…
This UP-277 ukrainian r-77 with classic fins, have same characteristics what and R-77
Thats a pretty odd claim, considering the R-77-1 was unveiled only 1 year before the first flight of the Su-57, which would mean the Russians developped their next generation fighter with no consideration for internal carriage of their newest air to air missile at the time, which was likely being developped alongside it.
Theres also the fact that the R-77-1’s lattice fins can be folded…
Or the simple fact that grid fins ability to fold down is literally one of their primary advantages over planar fins, particularly in the context of internal carriage where space is at a premium…
Beyond that, theres the fact that we’ve already posted documents stating grid fins are not used for air to air missiles DESPITE initially seeming to be a good idea because the particular aerodynamic features of grid fins along with the fact that their leading edge needs to be extremely sharp to minimize their wave drag, but high supersonic flight (the regime in which grid fins are optimal) create too high a thermal and mechanical load on the leading edge, leading to losses in optimized contour of the fins.
Or, most damning of all, the fact that LITERALLY NO OTHER NATION uses grid fins for their air to air missiles. Not the US, not the EU, not China, or India, or Isreal, or France, or even Russia for the most part.
The borderline cult-like veneration some of you have for the grid fins, and your habits of dismissing the expertise of the vast majority of missile designers, is incredibly deranged.
Every single time any criticism is levied against the R-77, one of you comes up with some random explanation or handwaves away the criticism and pretends the R-77 is some kind of aerodynamic miracle only the brilliant and glorious soviet engineers could possibly come up with, instead of the more probable reasons grid fins were used, such as increased battery life due to the smaller hinge moment of these fins, or packing seeing as the missile began development almost exactly around the time the Su-47 Berkut and other potential “next generation” fighters the soviets would be working on following the introduction of the Su-27 were being developped, the Berkut noticeably having internal weapon storage.
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This is enough about the myths of the R-77s grid fins bro, you’ve been shown the relevant materials just read them. Stop yapping on about something that has been shown to be false.
A supercruise capable stealth fighter would benefit greatly from the advantages of grid fins in the high supersonic region due to their ability to launch them while supercruising above mach 1.3.
In fact, had they modified the grid fins to unfold post-launch (they can’t actually do this and need to be unfolded before takeoff or they can’t be used currently)… They’d benefit the Su-57 further.
The primary reason they switched away from grid fins as you’ve been told over and over and over and over and over is that the grid fins have a rather large RCS in comparison to their size and this is too detrimental to the use case of a stealth fighter. The Su-47 having a weapons bay and not focusing much on stealth adds to this point as it wouldn’t have been harmed much by the larger RCS of the missile in comparison to the Su-57
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I find it very hard to believe the r77 has a larger rcs than the su57 lol
More likely they switched over because planar fins are better, unless the soviets/Russians know something about missile design that the rest of the world doesn’t.
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When you have a stealth aircraft, weaponry like this would increase your rcs profile making you visible from further. It doesn’t matter wether the rcs of the missile is higher than lower compared to the aircraft, it adds up anyway to the total number. It is not black and white.
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I don’t see at all what upgrade of 90s missile to fit RuAF’s serial mass produced fighters has to do with incoming 5th gen aircraft with bay
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You can carry them outside the bay with smaller adverse effects on the overall rcs which is a clear benefit.
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Drag coef of grid fins is higher than that of planar fins. Lift coef is higher than that of planar fins.
With Planar fin’s L/D is considerably higher, at high AoA(<20°). Beyond that, the L/D of grid fins is higher
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Logically, there’s no way the 57 is stealth. Just look at the design compared to other stealth aircraft, exposed compressor blades, exposed engines, non feathered nozzles, uncovered irst and the list goes on. Hell, look at the design costs for Chinese and American stealth fighters, tell me that Russia, a relatively poor country by western standards, was able to produce a comparable stealth fighter at a small fraction of the cost that it took China and the us to do the same? I find it hard to believe that Russia is blind to the truth that it’s at best a 4.5 gen low observable aircraft, despite what they want the west to think. That makes it hard for me to believe they ditched the lattice fins to make a stealthier missile to put in a not so stealthy fighter.
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Let them cope, the patent for the alleged prototype is the only available info and it says 1.6 m2 aka an F16. Im sure all of them have seen the sekrit documents that make the exposed compressor jet stealthier than the F22 though
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No one ever said that, but in this case it’s true. The R-77s grid fins would have a higher radar cross section than the Su-57 frontally, that should be obvious.
The grid fins produce significantly less drag than planar fins at high supersonic speeds. They’re superior in this regard and with a supercruise capable stealth fighter can be launched above 1.3 mach far more often.
Last warning, you two aren’t going to peddle off topic nonsense in my thread any further. No thanks.
-edit, not ‘inappropriate’.
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L̶o̶l̶,
l̶m̶a̶o̶ e̶v̶e̶n̶
Back on topic, according to every source known to man the R77 should be a wee bit better than A/B AMRAAMs at closer ranges (sub 20ish nmiles) but should get slammed by any and everything in the C5+ class
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