Any aerodynamicist looking at this graph will tell you how well this or that aircraft flies. The graph shows how aerodynamically perfect it is. The torque generated by the lattice steering wheel is required less than by the monoplane
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You’re soooo unbiased tossing around “aerodynamically perfect.” Also actually I shouldn’t have trusted your explanation, because it’s wrong. Kmax isn’t Clmax/Cdmin. It’s the maximum value of Cl/Cd for any AoA, the optimal lift coefficient. Which makes it more of a useful number(if you’re designing a bomber or something), but not the applicable number for a missile because the missile can’t choose an AoA to fly at to maintain its trajectory to minimize Cd, it must maintain a fixed amount of lift which means a varying Cl as it’s speed changes. So this single number isn’t what needs to be optimized.
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If you think I’m wrong, you should be able to explain it. Memeing = admitting defeat.
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That graph is literally what I said. Your words are however, wrong.
I mean they are obviously wrong. Kmax is the maximum value of Cl/Cd across al AoA. Clmax is the maximum lift coefficent, normally right before a stall. CdMin is the minimum drag coeffient, normally 0 AoA. These are no the same AoA(duh) so Kmax = ClMax/CdMin is completely wrong.
Here, look at this graph. You can see CdMin and ClMax and they’re nowhere near each other. Cl/Cd isn’t graphed here, but it’s in the middle somewhere.
This is a drag polar graph, where you can see that KMax(point b) ClMax(point d) and CdMin(point a) are all different.
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That is what you wrote so you just communicated poorly. And your graph still doesn’t say what you want it to.
I was referring to the maximum lift coefficient with minimal drag. Not the absolute maximum of Clift
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That’s not what LMax or ClMax is. So don’t call it that. It’s wrong.
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Yes, you will note on this chart it lists L/Dmax alongside ClOpt. ClOpt is the lift coeffient at L/Dmax, and is different than ClMax. You can also try dividing ClMax by Cd0(which is generally CdMin) and observe that you get a different result than L/DMax.
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Kmax This means with Clmax(not Cl=f(aoa)) at a minimum Cd
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Yes it’s increasingly clear you have no idea what you are talking about.
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I think he’s demonstrated quite well he understands what he is saying. He’s one of the developers behind the DCS mod that has produced a high fidelity and realistic FM for the Su-27. Between the two of you I feel he’s explained himself quite well.
@BBCRF not sure the gifs are a smart idea, may result in adverse action and give people who don’t understand the impression that you aren’t on the ‘winning’ side. Not that this is about ‘winning’.
@Aetreus if you think the R-77 model is erroneous in-game please explain how and with supporting documents / performance charts.
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Clopt This explanation will suit you
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Try communicating in a way that makes sense with regards to the subject matter. This:
Makes no sense. “With ClMax?” but Kmax is not at ClMax. “not Cl=f(aoa)”, but Kmax is literally the max of that function. “at a minimum Cd” but Kmax is not at minimum Cd either.
Yes? That’s what I think you’re trying to say, but you have done a terrifically bad job of it. Saying “it is the maximum value of the lift to drag ratio at any AoA” would have just explained things.
Appeal to authority. Also like literally just asserting your conclusion. If he’s good at this then he needs to actually demonstrate it and this is not it.
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He’s not an authority, he’s demonstrated his knowledge already in the past. Not taking the time to answer you in some drawn out manner doesn’t mean he’s wrong.
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WELL, this is literally a function of Cl=f(Cd). So with the Kmax. Your L will be the maximum for the current Cdmin value Or Clopt/Cdmin
@Aetreus If you want an L/D graph for the grid fins and monoplane wing. Unfortunately, there is no such schedule. Only Kmax
There’s a difference between “brief” and “wrong.” BBCRF’s responses were wrong. Just like, flagrantly wrong.
Well that sucks for you because as I have noted, Kmax is not enough to describe an air to air missile’s drag behavior. Because unlike an aircraft(or cruise missile), the missile will constantly vary in speed and therefore lift required to maintain level flight, and therefore its actual K in flight will not be Kmax. And of course lofting will throw a whole extra grenade into this because it means lift required isn’t just gravity, and at any rate the fins aren’t generating most of the lift to keep the missile in the air, only to control its AoA.
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