Either way it seems unlikely that the R-77 is hitting an 80 km target from a sub sonic launch, like I’ve seen people saying.
The target is subsonic, not a carrier
How is a target subsonic at such high altitudes, why would they even test that tbh.
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12-14km may well be a subsonic flight
We’ve already discussed this, is this some kind of bait? We know the R-77 to have 80km range under similar circumstances to the AIM-120A’s 74km figure. Likewise, both can exceed 100km with higher speed and altitude launches.
Let’s not forget that the R-77 does so WITHOUT lofting.
When we last discussed R-77 performance you said:
I took your word for it at the time. Today I was wondering what sources were available for the R-77, so looked though the sources section and comments in this thread and quickly found three primary sources saying range of “up to 80 km”.
To me “up to” implies 80 km is the maximum range the missile could possibly hit a target, which would be extension mean for a high altitude Mach 2 launch.
Hence my confusion: what information points to 80 km being for a subsonic launch?
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Those same sources state the R-27ER/ET to have “up to” a specific range figure which we know isn’t their actual maximum range. Simply put, it wasn’t translated well to English and it isn’t “up to and not exceeding…”
The reasoning for it being 80km on subsonic launch is because when testing in-game my AIM-120 model matches known data points within a good margin of error (5-10%) when the known public data is used. When I do the same for the R-77 it exceeds the 80km datapoints in the same conditions as the AIM-120s 74km launch unless it has quite literally double the drag coefficient.
what were the conditions for the 74km range?
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The same ones you refused to send us as a “source” when you claimed I was wrong… until you realized we already had that source. Verified by a couple of other places as well.
No, the other source you and Flame and Gun job all have.
yes, which doesnt mention 74 km? it’s 82km
Under a slightly different scenario, yes. The maximum DLZ for subsonic launch of the Harrier is 40nm or 74km but you already knew that. Let’s stop pretending you don’t know what I’m talking about and have an honest conversation.
thats an LSZ upper band, thats like assuming the AOA indicator max shows the max AOA pull, anyway.
“We know the R-77 to have 80km range under similar circumstances to the AIM-120A’s 74km figure”
what circumstances are this 74km figure then? if you said its not actual a circumstance and actually just an indicator.
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Let’s not assume anything, as I said we can be honest. Share the 82km source and I’ll share a test of the R-77 later using the same drag coefficient as the AIM-7F as a baseline. Modifying that I’ll increase the drag coefficient until it cannot match the AIM-120 and we can decide what exact coefficient you feel is best suited for the design.
It has been shared with you.
As I said, let’s be honest and share the more up-to-date information for everyone.
Does the less than or equal to symbol mean something different in Russian then?
Given that drag co-efficient in war thunder is a completely arbitrary number which:
doesn’t need to match any reference, it is chosen to allow developers easy manipulate with it
I wouldn’t read too much into that.
Also you seem to have a large amount of uncertainty with your R-77 stats:
What values did you use for your test?
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There are other considerations precluding further shots for the MiG-29 types such as datalink or informational limitations… or the document is just not accurate. There are plenty of documents within the DoD that state incorrect information.
It’s not entirely arbitrary, only that it won’t match 1:1 with reality since it is an integer that is used in conjunction with caliber in the files to determine the drag applied by the game engine. That’s why I suggest we find something you like for comparison as I did before. We can reference the AIM-7F drag coefficient as baseline since it is the same caliber and then modify it from there.
I’ve tested combinations, burn time and thrust vary based on altitude. For war thunders purposes they tend to match rear aspect launch conditions at 3-5km alt… I’d select a medium of your choice. What will satisfy you?
Don’t forget to switch the impulse to 236s and not 250s…