I don’t think a rigid system is required.
I don’t like the idea of pushing Gaijin against a wall of schedules. Sure, they could back out of said thing, but I said what I said.
God knows how well Gaijin would be able to research vehicles from a certain nation for example. Or hell, what if another crisis like Corona happens that prevents a nation of interest from being looked at?
Gaijin should be more transparent in their plans and these recent roadmaps are a lovely change, but I also think that pressuring Gaijin with these consistent expectations could lead to half-assed additions. Some pressure is good of course, but I’d rather see independent and sub-trees be implemented as quality additions.
I realized what this thread truly is. A C&P complaint one. let’s take a look at other points.
Matchmaker, the nation-based matchmaker is an RB-only thing.
In Arcade there are no nations it’s always mixed battles.
Well, Sim uses the event system.
Grind… Do you really think Gaijin wouldn’t find a way to worsen the grind with just sub-trees? They added rank 8 ground without adding a new BR for just giving everything more RP to get. They 100% would. At least with new independent trees they still use the level of grind we have now.
C&P Well yes I underwent there are vehicles you don’t want to spade again. It will always exist as long as Gaijin wants this game to be “Realistic” they are too.
“Tech-purity” hasn’t existed since at least 2014 with the Canadair Sabers. They name of the company that built them should tell you all you need to know.
My issue is not copy-paste. I understand the need for copy-paste. I very explicitly praised the Finnish subtree in the post despite it being copy-paste because those vehicles are needed lineup fillers. I don’t dislike copy-paste in theory. My issue is when a tree is majority copy-paste. Israel is an example of that. Sweden is a great example of exactly how to do copy-paste well. My issue is when a tree ends up like Israel which is copy-paste at its worst.
Israeli air largely feels lacklustre, but the ground isn’t copy paste.
The issue is that they currently don’t have much variety in playstyle, because Gaijin kept shoving Magachs down our throat. This was a huge issue before the big folder change was implemented, but now it isn’t a bad research line.
The core issue for Israel does remain though and I already have stated it: lack of gameplay variety. This is because Gaijin has yet to implement an Israeli light line and hasn’t yet fleshed out the TD line.
Had this been worked on sooner, then Israel wouldn’t have been seen as a copy paste tree, but this unfortunately is not what has yet happened.
What’s funny though is that almost none of the Magachs are actual copy paste, they just feel too similar for the differences to matter. Less would’ve been more for them…
Until Gaijin properly expands Israel in areas that aren’t the Magach line, the ground tree will wrongfully be viewed as a copy paste tree.
Aviation side of things I’m not hugely thrilled on, despite most aircraft being modified, it just doesn’t help for me that most of the time it is adding some ordinance that the aircraft usually doesn’t have and I don’t like playing CAS. The aviation tree will always be poor in comparison to ground, but ground has been done very dirty as things stand.
I’ve said this a lot already, but I know Israel’s ground tree does not have to be copy-paste. A bunch of times I have sent a tree I made showing what it could look like. But air does inherently have the problem of copy-paste. That is a problem that will permeate every other independent tree they add. The Israeli ground tree does not have to be bad, but the ground tree right now is an example of bad copy-paste, and the air tree is copy-paste at its worst.
While I recognize that I may not have misunderstood by what you meant on Israeli ground, I disagree with this statement.
While no new nations can cover their entire air tree with mostly unique aircraft like most nations currently in game are capable of doing, there are still nations left with plenty of unique stuff.
My easy and reliable examples to point to are Czechoslovakia, Poland and Yugoslavia. Switzerland has unique stuff also, but to more limited extent and more in the “heavily modified” category. Spain much the same, but to lesser extent.
Iran would arguably have a more unique air tree than Israel and Romania, though I don’t think it should be an independent tree, also has a fun history of making their own aircraft.
Benelux would have a very fair low tier, but it wouldn’t be able to hold up quite as well uniqueness wise as some of the other mentioned nations can.
Yes, all of the given examples would contain more copy copy paste than what France currently has, but they will be better than most of what the Chinese currently have on offer and will always be superior to Israel. I understand that for the Israeli aviation case the bar is low, but it’s worth mentioning nonetheless.
I imagine people would find more joy in flying Polish Lim and Romanian LanceR modifications than they would the Israeli offerings.
Czechoslovakia, Poland, Yugoslavia, and Switzerland are all way better options than Israel. Israel has way worse of a copy-paste problem than any of those 4 will have. Nonetheless, I think those have enough of a copy-paste problem that I think adding them as independent trees is not a good idea.
That must be an unresolvable disagreement then.
I appreciate how civil you are despite how your topic and opinions get continually berated. It’s quite admirable.
Unless gaijin reduces rp and sl cost for copy paste vehicles I am against adding a strictly national tree. I think that a more regional focus or ties focus is called for. Commonwealth, Centeral and Western European tree for example. I do not want to grind out the t72 m1 for the 4th time or the m48 for the umtheenth. An eastern block tree (Poland, Ukraine, Romania, ect) for example could be mostly unique and only have a minimum of copy paste. There is still plenty to add for many nations in game.
In my opinion there is no problem with new minor nation trees.
The problem with new nations is that they are being forgotten by gaijin.
I’d bet that if every minor nation got 4-8 vehicles per update - just like America, Germany and ESPECIALLY Russia, they wouldn’t be forgotten as much.
Take a look at Japan and Italy for example. They both have so many air, naval and tank options left to add, but they aren’t getting them.
One of Japans most produced bombers hasn’t been added to the game yet. Same goes for lots of Italian fighters. Same goes for strike aircrafts as well. The A6M7 and A6M8 variants aren’t in the game yet.
And that information is based of the old-warthunder-forums alone. So not new individual parties in the new forums.
I’ve read almost every suggestion from the old forums, and just a few are blueprints only.
I’ve just talked about Japan and Italy, but it counts for all nations in game. Especially for Japan, Italy, France and Great-Britain.
I have no idea why Hungary got added to Italy - Italy could get so many more homemade options, so that Hungary could be combined with Romania, Bulgaria etc…
Incase you don’t believe me - here is the link to the old forum.
It’s just the lack of care or personal bias towards specific nations.
That we have already seen with the Abrams armour, Type-10 armour and the American M735 dart round.
I understand that a lot of the nations ingame have a lot of options left to add, but first, even nations like the US don’t get 4-8 per patch and 4-8 per patch per nation would make every nation run out of content very quickly.
