Both the TO90 and Char25T should be 7.7 until Gaijin decompresses 7.7-9.3 because it’s quite compressed right now.
It deserves to go back to 7.7, where it can compete with the tanks around it
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Sure
When it was 7.7 it was OP.
A faster T-54 with a faster gun, faster turret, and as-good round just with slightly less armor.
The later T-54s with better rounds are 8.0 as well, AMX-50 TO90 is balanced at 8.0, as is Batchat.
Now, whether you want Object 906 at 8.3 or not is something else entirely.
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But slower turret traverse and less survivability.
My thought process on why the French tanks are overtiered is based simply on the Turm III, and the fact that there should be a 1.0 gap between them.
The Turm 3 should be 8.7, and it has 3 distinct advantages, all worth 0.3 BRs. The stabilizer, 30mm, and the gun upgrade are all worth 0.3 BRs individually, which works out to a 1.0 difference in total.
The Char25t is hilarious at 8.0 because it’s utterly useless in the frontal engagements gaijin forces on you. It can barely pen a Tiger II H frontally, let alone an Obj 122 or any T series tank.
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Being able to pen the enemies it faces, while also having APHE and a stab makes it objectively better.
Batchat fires the same APHE round as American 90mm just out of a longer gun, so it has slightly more pen than the Soviet 100mm APHE round.
People seem to do fine with the T-54s.
I know, but it also lacks overpressure when compared to the 100mm.
But they get APDS or HEAT-FS too, which means they aren’t dead if they meet something head-on. Plus they actually have armour that can resist guns in a downtier.
There just aren’t any excuses for the Char25T to be 0.3 lower than the Turm 3, and the same BR as the obj 406.
Only the 8.0 T-54s get APDS/HEATFS, and that’s made up by the fact they have extremely slow turret & gun traverse on chronically average mobility platforms.
Batchat has light tank benefits which is why it’s easily 8.0.
The fact M24 is still 3.7 when it should be 4.3 with AMX-13 is wild.
Light tanks when of equal gun and more mobility should be higher than their medium/heavy counterparts.
Of course batchat is only marginally more mobile than AMX-50 TO90.
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Except Soviet tanks and a few heavy’s, which tanks can’t you pen with 200mm of penetration?
Mobile vehicles make up penetration by ambushing or out flanking tanks with their better mobility.
That’s like the whole deal with them being 8.0.
When you shoot enemies in the sides with a 4.0s reload, you don’t need that much penetration.
By that logic the ZSU-57 would be unplayable with two 57mm cannons at 7.0.
Using an OP premium as a metric for BR placement is also no valid argument.
Like which 8.0 tank deserves 8.0 compare to the Turm III?
You can penetrate most, but you’ll be required to aim very carefully in order to deal any damage.
M48s and especially M60s are tough to crack for that APHE round. Things get really bad if you encounter stabilized versions of all those mentioned tanks, that sit just a single BR step above.
You have no stabilization and have to pixel hunt, meanwhile they are fully stabilized and can lolpen you.
Seeing how common vehicles like M48/M60/T-series are in this tier, you’ll be facing pretty tough opponents on a very regular basis.
Object 906 doesn’t really need to worry about this as it have full stabilization and a HEAT round.
Full stabilization is a massive advantage on it’s own in this tier.
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100 mm APHE rounds don’t overpressure. Not anymore at least.
Overtiered French vehicles? Naaaaah!
It needs to worry not to get shot or .50caled.
Engaging any target from the front is always a bad idea in a light tank.
Since you have no armor you need to rely on mobility and terrain to not get shot.
Any round that isn’t APHE is generally a sidegrade for the performance of a vehicle, since you only going to switch to it in certain situations.
One shotting light or open top vehicles with HE is great but no tank would have their BR changed if they had their HE removed, unless it’s their primary round.
Same deal with HEAT-FS on the Object 906.
Just because you have a round that can penetrate nearly any target doesn’t mean you want to be in a position where you need that kind of penetration.
I do agree with you for .50cals, but AMX is a pretty soft target for any main cannon round at it’s BR, so if you get shot by those things there’s a really big chance you’re getting penned.
906 is smaller and has similar HP/t as AMX, but with higher forward/backward speeds. In my eyes, former wins in the mobility aspect.
I’d argue the total opposite is true.
If you main APHE, you’ll frequently end up against vehicles your rounds will have big issues going through, which paired with no stabilization at all is sub-optimal to say the least.
Having HE as a secondary shell is really nice, but it doesn’t make you kill something you couldn’t kill with your main round in the first place, at least not frontally.
On the other hand, APHE struggles a lot against certain armor and HEAT will basically transform your engagement from pixel hunt to lolpen simulator.
I don’t think that you can always choose your engagements and inevitably you’ll go against “final boss” types of vehicles which will make your life miserable if you’re using APHE.
906 also has a better APHE which is easier to aim due to stabilization.
Honestly I don’t really see the benefits of the AMX that isn’t armor which only works against 50cals and autocannons. Oh and a bit of horizontal traverse speed and a single degree of gun depression.
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Well obviously. Also even the best tank can get killed or overwhelmed.
You don’t need to win every fight against every vehicle for a vehicle to be effective.
The performance of a vehicle can also be very map dependent.
But it won’t change that a vehicle can be a lot better in certain situations.
One successful ambush or flank will easily reward you with many kills.
And of course it’s a team game.
Which plays again the you don’t to win a 1 vs. 1 fight, you just need to disable a distracted enemy or help in destroying big threats to you and your team.
I can respect your opinion but really “slightly less armor” is an insanely inaccurate statement as the frontal plate takes about 50mm less to pen on the AMX-50 and the fact that the turret armor is very weak. Also, the rounds aren’t comparable as AMX-50 has 209MM of penetration while the T-54 which sits at the same BR has sabot, heat, and a better APHE round. personally I would 100% take the opportunity to have a significant increase in penetration, nearing 150MM. So definitely wrong. My personal opinion is that they should gradually decompress up until 15.0, probably taking a while. It was very good at 7.7, especially considering the tanks that would theoretically be placed around it if it moved there. So I do understand both sides, but when a tank is under-powered at only .3 higher but overpowered if it says, I think there is a problem that obviously needs to be solved.
Object 906 can do everything that AMX can but better, except tanking .50 cals and autocannon rounds of course.
The AMX-50 TO90/930 is a quirky fun vehicle, it can be extremely powerful depending on how you use it, but it’s not an all-rounder, and you will suffer from the lower armor and lower pen if you find yourself in a bad situation. The better gun handling (almost double the horizontal traverse rate) compared to obj906 makes it more forgiving and more fun to play with. The mobility is pretty good, and m82 pretty consistently kills in one shot with side shots. Even though you can’t easily pen T54s and M60s, there are still many spots where you can take last resort shots to their front, like turret ring and side of breach, and the 4s autoloader gives you more chances to go for those inconsistent shots. The downside is that the armor is terrible, at close ranges even m163 will pen your turret, and any autocannon with apds will easily pen you, but commander fire with the great gun handling and the autoloader can save you if your enemy doesn’t aim well. It’s not something for everyone, but it fits in fine at 8.0.
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